ADVERTISING – Junior - Celebrating life at the bottom

May 21, 12

The Monday Morning WHIP // 176

A picture may tell a thousand words, but this isn’t the case when it comes to your folio.

Seems like pretty much every young hopeful has a website or online folio these days.

Which is probably wise as it allows people to take a look at your work before meeting you.

Problem is (well I think it’s a problem) all they’re looking at is your work.

What’s wrong with that, you’re probably thinking.

Well in my experience there’s a lot more to a young creative person than their work.

People want to get a feel for you. And your thinking.

How you approach a problem.

What went into the work they’re looking at.

And any stories, problems or background info.

So rather than just putting your work online to speak for itself, why not knock out a paragraph or two to support it.

It’s the closest thing to being there to talk about your work. Even when you’re not.

Also posted in WHIP |

May 04, 12

Juniorversity // 12

Dan Wieden makes sense of television, digital and what’s really at the heart of it all.

Also posted in JUNIORVERSITY |

Apr 11, 12

Juniors, meet Kieran Antill. Originally hailing from Sydney – Kieran is a Creative Director at Leo Burnett in NYC (http://lbny NULL.com/). Not only is he one of the most awarded Art Directors in the universe (voted Cannes 2010 #1 Art Director), he is also a fine artist – exhibiting in Sydney, London and New York for the last 10 years. Together with his creative partner and good mate Michael Canning, he’s responsible for flippin’ successful campaigns like this (http://www NULL.canningandantill NULL.com/lynx-jet NULL.html), this (http://www NULL.canningandantill NULL.com/photo5 NULL.html) and this (http://www NULL.canningandantill NULL.com/space-monkey NULL.html). We got in touch with Kieran to find out just how he got so darn good at making stuff. Turns out, it could be as simple just saying “yes”…

Junior: Hey Kieran! How is NYC treating you? How has the first year been?

Kieran Antill: Great! I made the move to New York with the Leo Burnett network with my great mate Michael Canning which was a reunion with Chief Creative Officer, Jay Benjamin. So to be honest it has been about as smooth anyone could ask for. We’ve had an amazing year 1 in New York – opening the office winning 2 major clients in Chobani Yogurt and Dewars scotch, and launching a new creative platform in New York Writes Itself (http://www NULL.newyorkwritesitself NULL.com/).

Jr: Jealous! We’ve got so many questions… Let’s go from the top – What’s your background? What did you study? How did you get into advertising?

KA: My background? Ok, here is the abridged version: I grew up in Australia. Chased girls. Left on a basketball scholarship to the US aged 18. Had to pick something to study at University in the States so I chose Biology. A year into my degree I did a photography class and fell in love with the arts. I changed my degree to Fine Arts with a Graphic Design emphasis, but spent most of my time in the painting studio, and on the road with basketball. Basketball took me around the states for 5 years and then to Europe, but after knee surgery and thousands of better players I returned to Australia.

When I got home, I spent a full year waiting for people to ask me to design and paint them something while selling my art at the local Manly markets. That never happened and I finally I realised I hadn’t told anyone I existed – so I took a freelance job with a friend of mine. That only lasted a month, but he gave me contacts at two other companies. I called them both. One of them never called me back (dick) and the other one asked me to come in. I met Graham Nunn at the then FNL offices. He was a very nice man and he seemed to like my work. I left, a.k.a I went back to the beach and sold my art for two more months. The phone then rang when I was in this shitty hardware store where I couldn’t find the right paint colour I was looking for. Graham somehow hadn’t lost my number (nice man) and he asked if I could do style guides. I, naturally, lied, and said “of course”- then called my friend and asked what the hell a style guide was. I started freelancing for FNL, and left 2 years later with a business card that said ‘Art Director’. From there on I have kept saying “yes, I can do that”, then figuring out how to actually do it. Along the way I have realised the secret is to just say ‘yes’ and figure the rest out as you go.

Jr: So true. Lots of people we’ve interviewed got started in a similar way. It’s nice to know we all have to start somewhere – be it style guides, 8×7 press ads or that shitty retailer no one wants to work on. Do you see your time at FNL as a bit of an advertising apprenticeship?

KA: FNL was a small agency that had very premium clients like VW, Sony and Harley Davidson (at least back 8 years ago). It was a great training ground for me as the work was top shelf, but by the agency being so small, even as a junior my role was important.

The best agencies to get a start in are often the smaller more boutique agencies that have a big reputation. Working at a smaller agency means ‘all hands on deck’, so you will be exposed to everything and it’s much easier getting onto big opportunities in that kind of environment. If the agency is too big the culture tends to teach hierarchy to its creatives, so you spend your first years being told that you are a junior – which in my opinion just stunts creative growth and simply serves as an excuse not to be better.

However, the thing to realize about larger agencies (150+ people) is that they are often made up of smaller sub-agencies. Not defined by walls, but by the personalities of the people that work there. If you are a junior, you want to find out who you report to – who is the Creative Director that will be giving you your opportunities. Great work is often made by a handful of people regardless of the size of the agency. You want to know who they are because just having the same business card does not mean you will work with them, or learn from them. If the agency is too small there are often no opportunities and the budgets can be so tight that keeping the doors open is considered a success.

Ultimately however, you need to learn the people and not the agencies. Find out who does what work and contact them directly. If they work in your agency ask them to tell you more about the work they have done, and maybe a brief you could help out on. If they work somewhere else, ask for a job (you never know what they will say). A tip on finding really good people is that they have done more than just one great bit of work – consistently great work is the real test. Google names of people credited on the work you like and see what else they have done.

Jr: Coming from more of a graphic design background – Did you ever do Award School – or did you ‘get’ advertising straight away?

KA: AWARD school is heavily weighted towards idea generation, and it should be. But, once you have a great idea you need to be able to articulate it in words and/or pictures to help people around you understand the idea. Your Creative Director, the Account Management team, your client and in the case of AWARD school, your tutors. This might be the hardest part.

Producing your ideas lives outside of AWARD school and it usually comes more naturally to those with a design and art background. This is something no school can really teach, it is only though the doing that you get better. Plenty of great ideas stumble and fall at this stage.

So in short, if you were in a job interview you might have someone ask – “I see you’ve done AWARD school, what else have you done?” – Make sure you have the ‘what else’.

Jr: Tell us about your art. Was that your “What else”?

KA: My art is my personal space. The role it plays in my life is to feel completely free. I love all the commercial ventures I find myself apart of, but collaboration often comes with compromise. My art is the thing “what else” that has opened plenty of doors as it has not needed to compromise.

That being said, when it comes to my commercial ventures I’ve learned from working with great creatives like Michael Canning, Steve Coll, Jay Benjamin and Andy DiLallo that it’s all about protecting the core idea and never compromising on that part, which has led to work that has defined my career to this point.

Having personal projects for all creatives in whatever form is essential. It builds confidence. You know you can create without all the hype, all the meetings and all the award shows.

Jr: At what point did you aspire to become a Creative Director?

KA: I’ve never aspired to be a Creative Director by title. But I’ve never enjoyed reporting to people. That has been a mix of immaturity and confidence to tell the truth. But today it just feels like the right position to be in, the younger guys teach me as much as I teach them.

Also posted in ART | Tags: ADVERTISING, FNL, KIERAN ANTILL, LEO BURNETT

Feb 26, 12

Junior Event // 31

When it comes to speaking at Junior – you can’t go wrong with a good ol’ fashion triangle diagram. In what was our first event for 2012, Ben Couzens – CD at Clemenger BBDO Melbourne gave his 10 tips a bit over 10 minutes. Not that we minded – even the band due to play that stood lingering at the back of the room learnt a thing or two about how to make an awesome ad.

Also posted in DRINKS | Tags: ADVERTISING, BEN COUZENS, CLEMENGER BBDO, DRINKS

Feb 01, 12

The Interview Series // 50

Coming up with the ideas is only one part of what we do. Selling, presenting and most importantly – winning business is the other. But that’s the shit they just don’t teach you in class. So we decided it was time we learnt a thing or two about it and chatted to Andrew Foote – founding partner and creative director at AJF Partnership (http://ajfpartnership NULL.com NULL.au). He knows a thing or two about hand shakers – he started AJF from scratch with two other lads (who, weirdly enough, all have the same initials) almost 7 years ago. They are one of the largest independent agencies in Oz. Couldn’t really be further from where he started — as a little junior copywriter in (r)Adelaide.

Junior: Ok Andrew – Can we call you Footey? Tell us, how did you get into advertising?

Footey: I was studying law at university, and realised the only thing I’d learned was that I didn’t want to be a lawyer. I’d never really thought about a career in advertising, because quite frankly it hadn’t occurred to me. (Truth be known I was probably spending too much time on the golf course to think about any career at all.) But I got to talking to a couple of mates in the ad business who suggested I give it a go, firstly by doing AWARD School. One of those mates was Adam Francis, who was an art director at the Adelaide start-up Killey & Withy, which was to become KWP! Anyway, I finished my law degree, then did okay in AWARD School, and by this time Adam had moved to Clemenger Adelaide and was in need of a writer. Fortunately, Clems gave me a crack. That was over 18 years ago, and Adam and I still work together to this day.

Jr: 18 years! That’s longer than some marriages. At what point did you consider starting your own agency?

AF: Just to give you the career context, I went from being a writer at Clemenger Adelaide to a senior writer and creative director at Clemenger Harvie/CHE, then to Y&R Melbourne as a senior writer under James McGrath, then to joint creative director at Y&R Adelaide. We had an interesting 18 months or so at Y&R Adelaide. When Adam and I, together with MD David Hallett arrived, the place was struggling badly despite having an agency full of great, talented people. We worked incredibly hard, did some good work, turned things around, and then… lost Mitsubishi, our biggest client. The decision was made in Japan, and was totally out of our hands. Y&R made the decision to shut the agency, so we initially decided to start our own shop in Adelaide, which we did, although it proved to be a false start for AJF Partnership. At around the same time, CHE asked us to return as joint executive CDs, and for one reason or another this seemed like the best option at the time, particularly as it allowed us to return to Melbourne. But after ten months at CHE we realised that we really would like to have a bash at it ourselves, so we left, and we did.

Jr: It’s obviously paid off now, but what were some of the initial challenges you first faced? Obviously it didn’t take long to pick a name?

AF: Winning clients, obviously. Ever tried cold-calling anyone? It’s pretty daunting. We had to decide who we were going to call, who would actually do the calling, what they’d say, and then how we’d present if they were interested in hearing from us. What was our point of difference? What could we offer that other agencies couldn’t? Fortunately, our approach must have worked – in six years we’ve gone from three to sixty five staff in Melbourne, and have our Sydney office up and running with around a dozen staff. As for the name, crazily enough we did think about other options. Fortunately we resisted, and AJF Partnership it was. The fact that the three founding partners have exactly the same initials has been a pretty good icebreaker.

Jr: There’s a lot of factors in play when it comes to a winning new business pitch, but what advice would you give young creatives when one lands on their desk?

AF: I don’t think young creatives should treat a pitch brief differently to any other. Simply put, answer the brief in a creative, engaging way. More often than not, you need to find a big brand thought that can be easily demonstrated across a whole range of media. You might find that the CD pushes you down a certain path, and may not always go for what you consider to be your ‘coolest’ or most creative ideas. But as you say, there are a lot of factors in play in a pitch, so there are a lot of strategic decisions being made that you may not fully appreciate. Clients pitch for a lot of reasons, but there are generally very specific things they are looking for in an agency, and it’s the CD’s job to make sure the work delivers on those. One thing I’d say is that it’s important to get up to speed with the client’s business, their category and their target audiences very quickly. Any agency that demonstrates a good understanding of these things will be off to a good start.

Jr: Selling ideas – whether it be a pitch or a presentation is the second part of what we do. Can you tell us a few things we can do to get our ideas made?

AF: As a junior, I think the best thing you can do is to make sure your ideas answer the brief, and can be achieved on time and on budget. You may not be presenting the work yourself, so you’ll often have to leave the selling to others, be they account management or senior creative people. But you can make the sale somewhat easier by developing a bulletproof creative rationale, explaining why the idea is right for the brief and why it will do the job it needs to. If appropriate, include plenty of reference so that the client can really picture what you’re trying to achieve. But don’t despair if work doesn’t get sold. Chances are, you’re working on smaller briefs at this stage, and although you’d no doubt like the agency to fight tooth and nail for your idea, in the bigger scheme of the client relationship it may not make a lot of sense to push too hard for a smaller job. It’s a ‘lose the battle to win the war’ situation. In any case, if your idea’s good enough it’ll still stand out in your folio, and CDs will understand the reasons why it didn’t get made.

Jr: Speaking of folios – What do you consider when judging the strength of an idea?

AF: Does it answer the brief, and will it work its arse off. In other words, will it get the people we want to do what we want them to? That’s what all great advertising does. Of course, there are many ways to achieve this – that’s where the creative bit comes in, and that’s what we’re paid to do.

Jr: And what do you look for when hiring a potential creative?

AF: For a start, we’ve got an unwritten no-dickhead policy. You spend a lot of time with people at work, so I’d rather enjoy their company than not. We look for people with honesty, integrity and a good work ethic. We look for people who can create campaigns, not just one-off ads. We look for people with a certain level of maturity so that they can work autonomously. And we look for people who create brilliant work that is designed to sell stuff, not just make their reel and folio look good.

Jr: As a copywriter, what process do you go through when writing headlines?

AF: I sit down with a pad and a pen. I scribble words on a page. If I kind of like a thought, I’ll draw a box that’s the shape of the ad and write the headline in it. Sometimes I pull out a thesaurus, just to look for other ways into what I’m trying to say. I keep referring back to the brief. Maybe flick through an annual, visit the client’s website, stare out the window – all the usual stuff. It has to be quiet – I can’t write with music on or people talking around me. I really enjoy the process. I don’t delete or chuck out anything either, because a lot of thoughts that you don’t end up using for that particular headline can make great bits of copy, or lines for digital pieces, or become other ideas altogether.

Jr: Lastly, what’s the best piece advice that was given to you when you were a junior?

AF: Here’s a good one for writers: buy a stopwatch. Whenever you’re writing for TV or radio, read your scripts out loud, at a leisurely pace, and time yourself. This will help you to stop over-writing, and prevent much stress in the recording studio.

There are all sorts of those little things that you pick up along the way, but I can’t recall any single profound pieces of advice that I’ve lived by. I guess I’ve always just observed everything and everyone, and reached my own conclusions about what I thought were the right and wrong ways to do things. I’m still doing it today.

Also posted in THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Tags: ADVERTISING, AJF PARTNERSHIP, ANDREW FOOTE, THE INTERVIEW SERIES

Jan 17, 12

Dear Junior Series // 07

Reinventing yourself in this business ain’t easy, let alone getting a foot in the ‘Planning Department’ door. But if there’s one thing we’ve learnt, it’s that where there’s a will, there’s a way. Remember Mark Pollard (http://www NULL.markpollard NULL.net)? He’s been a busy boy since we last spoke. Having departed from McCann Sydney to move to Saatchi & Saatchi New York – he has just started a new gig at Brooklyn agency Big Spaceship (http://www NULL.bigspaceship NULL.com/). And, he’s even managed to take a bit of time out to pen us a “How to get into planning” guide. So, if the grass seems vibrantly greener on the other side of the agency and you fancy yourself as a Planner, Creative, Producer, or whatever really, read this — there’s lessons for everyone.

So, you fumbled your way into an agency through a friend of the family, the front desk, an intern programme, or a job in account management or production, and you want to move into planning. Planning seems interesting (you get to learn and say smart stuff) and you’ll probably earn more as a planner, right? You’ll go to work in your planning outfit and project your important voice in meetings in-between awkward pauses that you deliberately make to keep the room off kilter. Maybe you’ll develop a hint of an English accent to really keep everyone guessing and in awe of your thinking. The world will take you more seriously and you might be able to upgrade your shitty television. Oh, and you won’t have to pay as much attention to deadlines and costs. Dream job.

I love planning. Well, I love the idea of planning – specifically, my idea of what planning is. In planning, you get to learn about people, business and ideas. You get to impact culture if you’re in the right agency with the right clients. You get to wrestle with problems and hopefully invent something. I believe strategy is ideas and I get an adrenaline rush out of ideas. So, I completely understand why you would want to move into planning. The catch is that making the move is hard: there aren’t a lot of planning jobs around (especially junior roles) and it can be a bit of a game to cross over.

I got my break in planning at Leo Burnett when Todd Sampson was head of planning. I was a digital producer elsewhere – back a few years ago, being a producer meant you did strategy, account management, project management, finances, functional scoping and user experience – but I was burnt out. I was working long hours doing a whole bunch of stuff, but I knew I only liked part of it. So, with my firstborn on the way, I quit my job and was fortunate enough to freelance as a digital producer at Leo Burnett thanks to Louise O’Donnell, Andrew Robertson and Nicole Still. It was, and still is, hard to find digital brains, so I felt I could maintain a freelance producer role for a while (come in, do the work and go home, right?).

At this time, I didn’t really know what planning was. Digital was so tangible – you drew up wire frames, had something made, watched what happened and improved it. I knew I liked working things out and I knew I liked what I thought strategy was. Fortunately, Mr Sampson gave me a shot as a bit of an experiment – take someone who’s grown up digital and help them develop planning skills. That is how I crossed over. And, having watched others cross over since, here are a few tips to help you hungry little planners-to-be make the transition.

The first and main point is that you need the planning director to want you. It’s like dating: if you’re too keen and available, you may seem too easy and not enough of a chase. You have to strike the balance between enthusiasm and desperation. If you read ‘Obliquity’ by John Kay, (http://www NULL.johnkay NULL.com/) the indirect way is most effective, so do everything you can to build a reputation that makes its way to the planning director ahead of your request.

Second, make the request. This can be difficult as some agencies are extremely hierarchical and perhaps your boss will flip out at you if you do. If you’re in an agency like this, try to move to a new one. Even though CEO’s will often say “we’re all the culture”, “we” really aren’t – a fish always rots from the head. Build relationships with the planning team. Ask to help with research, show initiative. Ask about books to read. Ask to do a planning course. Persist politely.

Third, ask for access to projects currently in the mix and put a one-page response together. If you follow the guts of this article, How to do account planning (http://www NULL.markpollard NULL.net/how-to-do-account-planning-a-simple-approach/), I’m sure you’ll put a dent in some good thinking.

Fourth, get a new job. It’s very hard to reinvent yourself in agencies. I’ve seen it time and time again. People get looked over for certain roles or pigeon-holed with certain tasks only to leave the agency and do brilliantly elsewhere. At the very least, a new job offer may get your current agency to re-consider you. However, from what I’ve read, the counter-offer situation rarely lasts long anyway – the employee tends to leave within the following year.

Five, build your external profile with interesting projects. If your agency has a lot of brands that sell to mums, set up a blog about mums and their online behaviour or do a study of the trends in ads aimed at mums from the past decade. Find an angle, build it and promote it and use it as proof of your dedication.

Six, time it. In change management the experts talk about a ‘critical state’ needing to happen before change happens, and, in planning departments, someone resigning could be your critical state.

Things that may turn planning directors off include: being aggressive and angry, talking about yourself and your desire to become a planner while showing no actual initiative, email nagging, saying blatantly dumb things (weird, unusual, unexpected are all good) and acting like a know-it-all (that can come later). Most will look for a period of effort and consistent contribution. Planning directors want smart people in their teams – but they also want people who fit their personal style, their clients, their projects and add a slightly different twist to the team.

Good luck.

Also posted in DEAR JUNIOR, PLANNING | Tags: BIG SPACESHIP, MARK POLLARD, PLANNING

Aug 10, 11

The Interview Series // 48

Adam Morris has the best beard we’ve ever seen. No shit. Look at it. It’s bushy awesomeness distracted us constantly throughout our early morning interview. And it’s distracting us again now from getting to Adam’s important bits. See, Adam is founder of Monsieur (http://monsieur NULL.com NULL.au/) – a newly formed digital shop in Melbourne. He preaches a smart, useful and beautiful approach to digital. And we reckon his opinion is worth hitting publish on – seeing as he’s worked on all things digital since nineties. And… He has a beard. But seriously, we got pretty deep into www’s in this one – so scroll away and then go make something useful and pretty and make us proud.

Junior: Ok Adam, let’s go back, way back…

Adam Morris: I started out typesetting magazines and designing for print. I worked with a small ad agency in Queensland through that role and ended up teaching their art directors HTML after hours. I’d taught myself HTML and was also studying Multimedia at university at the time. And then I became mates with those guys, and one of them moved to London, got a job in an agency there, and then got me one too in the web design department. This was in 1999/2000. It was a really interesting time as it was right at the height of the dot com bubble. Because of that, I got into roles that I wasn’t really qualified to do. Which was great. It’s the best way to learn. I had a couple of web design jobs in ad agencies and digital shops in London and Edinburgh before I came back home.

Jr: Sounds like a great time to be cutting your teeth…

A: Yeah, I did that for five years or so, and then I moved back to the Gold Coast. I worked as a traditional art director for six months, and then I opened up my own little design agency that did web stuff, for a year and a half. I had some decent clients. I had Billabong – which is about all you can have on the Gold Coast, right? So I did that, fluked some work from Monster.com via the ‘States, so I did sites for them. It was weird how that came about. It was about that time that CSS website design became really big. There was all those CSS design websites, putting up a new site/page every day. That whole web 2.0 aesthetic. A very weird time.

Jr: Did you find you more creative in your own business than in agency land?

A: No, not really. Probably less. Back then it was more about doing what you could with the technology. I always had a love for typography, grid systems and modernist design, so that always drove a lot of what I was doing so it was truly a design mind-set. But working in a big agency and collaborating with people with really diverse skill-sets really opened my eyes to ideas and real creative thinking. Working with copywriters, planners and UX folk really opened up a whole new world for me. That is what I consider to be a more meaningful form of ‘being creative’ anyway – solving problems through communications AND interaction design, rather than communicating in a more abstract sense through aesthetics, design and composition.

Jr: More recently you worked at DT Digital, and Cornwell Design in Creative Director and Director of Digital roles. Do you find yourself on the tools still – do you still code and do all that nerdy stuff?

A: I love it. I miss it. Towards the end of DT, as I had two roles there, CD of DTDigital and also Digital CD at Ogilvy, it was really full on so I never had any time to do stuff. I was across nearly every job in both agencies. It’s hard to adjust to. You go from spending every day of your life creating things, and then all of a sudden you find yourself in a place where you are coordinating stuff and going to a lot more meetings, managing staff and working more closely with clients.

Jr: Do you think having a technical background is really advantageous in working in digital adland?

A: Definitely. If there is someone in your agency who you can kind of draw upon then that’s always helpful. I think the work that I consider to be the most interesting work in the world is brought out of tapping into emerging behaviour that is based around technology – that kind of innovation hits the sweet spot almost. I’m trying to think of a good example. Everyone uses Nike+ as the example, but just an awareness of how people start to use technology to augment real life situations. Like how people are starting to pair technology with real-life behavior before other brands do. Nike jumped on really quickly when they noticed people were listening to their iPods while they were running, then going and making that experience more awesome. It’s all about timing, so now they own that behavior. Nike watched what their customer’s were doing, took a leap of faith and now pretty much ‘own’ music-plus-running. No other brand can touch it now. If you’re first to market it means everything.

Jr: Creatives coming out of AWARD school and the like come from the classic art director copywriter way of working. What kind of skills and thinking do people need coming through now that will give them a real edge?

A: I definitely think you need an awareness of digital and behavioral trends—it sort of seems like graduates don’t understand media very well. I don’t think anyone ever speaks to them about the challenges of different media. Why what you are doing needs to change or be different depending on how people are interacting or absorbing the message and what context they’re in. I don’t think that there is enough focus on the people at the other end of advertising. I think that’s the biggest thing that agencies are moving from dealing with now – shifting from thinking about perception to thinking more about behaviour. I think media has totally dictated that. Now creativity is always dictated by the medium that it’s made for. TV and radio in particular are always about bringing something down to its essence, reducing complex stuff to a very simple message that needs to be communicated in a 15 or 30 second spot. Finite media. Digital is different because it’s infinite media. And it requires complexity and depth. Layers of stuff. It’s not about reducing something down to a really simple message; it’s about doing something of value that people can explore.

Jr: Sometimes it’s hard pitching that kind of thinking to people without that level of understanding… They want to know “what’s the ad in it?”

A: It’s blatantly obvious that that doesn’t work in life. Take a banner ad for instance, where we think we’ve done really well if it has a .5% click-through rate. That’s crazy and insane. That’s where the bar is set and it’s incredible. Agencies continue to spend most of their digital budget on banner advertising, which is totally ineffective. It blows my mind. I just think banner ads are inherently stupid. It’s taking that interruptive concise, here’s our message, and putting it into a medium where it’s totally irrelevant. 99.5% of the time what you are putting there is a pain in the ass to people. It’s stopping them doing something that they are trying to do – trying to read a news article, etc.

Jr: Like page takeovers. Those things must make media companies so much fucking money.

A: That’s why it keeps on going, because there’s so much money in it. Brands don’t really have the confidence to put money elsewhere because it’s risky. At least you know what you’re going to get with a banner ad. But it’s genuinely really easy to double or triple the effectiveness of what you are doing if you try doing something a little bit different. We need to take marketers out of their comfort zone more. It’s not too hard to do the maths and model a per-interaction cost… Try this, spend this much money, just have a crack at it. It’s generally 10 times more effective, sometimes 20 or 40 is you sit down and compare it to display ads.

Jr: We read post about thinking small (http://garethkay NULL.typepad NULL.com/brand_new/2011/05/think-small NULL.html). Very interesting, and very true for these times, don’t you think?

A: I think it’s very right. You look at the stuff that Burger King do, online, which is up there with the best stuff that is happening. They must do a couple of hundred campaigns a year. Whopper sacrifice, that kind of stuff. It’s relatively small, but effective. They probably do a lot of stuff that fails and you never hear about it, but that’s kinda the point. “Tiny bets” as Gareth Kay puts it.

Jr: Do you reckon we will see the death of banner ads any time soon?

A: Probably, but not for a couple of years. Just because it’s still low risk and marketing directors are probably more comfortable with that as their success metric. Which is sad, but then again that’s a massive opportunity for us all to do better stuff.

Jr: What would you say to the junior working in an ad agency, that 80% of their job is doing shitty banners, but they want to do better stuff? What do you think the opportunities are for someone in that position?

A: If you have to do them, you’ve got to do them as well as you can. If I was a junior having to do that kind of stuff I’d be coming up with other things and trying to slip it under the CD’s nose, and saying, well, what if we did this, and what if we did that, and being more aware of what is happening. Being more aware of how people are using the internet. Again, Whopper sacrifice is the perfect example of that. Being aware that there is this cultural phenomenon happening on Facebook. Simple. Being aware of that kind of stuff, and being aware of it early, and first. Identifying it first. A lot of that stuff is planner territory. So talk to planners as much as you can. Ask them what problems they’re trying to solve for the agency’s clients, get as much insight as you can out of them.

Jr: It seems like everyone is a digital strategist these days, which I suppose a good digital creative has to be in a way.

A: Being aware of that stuff is really important. And it’s also pretty interesting I reckon. Maybe I’m a bit weird but I find all that stuff, how people’s behaviour is changing as a result of digital becoming the dominant media, is pretty exciting. So much change happening all the time.

Jr: A copywriter was telling us the other day how when he started in advertising ten years ago, he and his art director had to share a computer, and they didn’t have office email. If that was ten years ago, imagine what it could be like in another ten years. If they didn’t have email back then and they were sharing a big chunky iMac, what will it be in ten years? We might not even go into an office…

A: I reckon it will probably end up being more like a Hollywood movie industry where you have floating creative directors who just recruit teams of freelance talent for particular jobs. Horses for courses.

Jr: A highly mobile crew. Indeed. A bit like yourself and your new business really. What sort of stuff are you going to do?

A: Mostly digital based service stuff, like branded utilities. That’s what I want to be doing. I refuse to do banner ads. Just out of principle. I’m really interested in the role of digital in enhancing or augmenting existing behaviour — so just incrementally improving things or making something more fun.

Jr: That’s it isn’t it. That’s the key. Make people’s lives easier, or more fun. Lastly, what do you think most people get wrong in doing digital?

A: Using clicks or impressions as a success metric. It’s part of the banner ad problem we were talking about. All the focus is on pushing people somewhere or getting them to click on something, with little or no thought about what happens at the other end. And if they are thinking about what goes on at the other end they’re making assumptions about behavior that are unfounded. That people will like something or use something that they just straight-up won’t. Like microsites for frozen peas or Facebook pages for insurance. You know, just adding to the massive pile of digital ghost towns.

Also posted in DESIGN, THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Tags: ADAM MORRIS, CORNWELL, DTDIGITAL, MONSIEUR

Jul 17, 11

Ask Esther // 01

We’re pretty excited about our new column featuring none other than creative recruiter Esther Clerehan. For those of you who don’t know her already, Esther has been placing creative people in agencies for over two decades. She has worked with the best, from juniors to ECDs. Esther has lectured AWARD School in Sydney and Melbourne more times than she can count on getting your career started. There is no other creative recruiter with more experience to educate us on the art of the job hunt. We got the ball rolling for her debut column, but from now on it’s over to you. Go on, ask Esther – send an email to wtf@lifeatthebottom.com (wtf null@null lifeatthebottom NULL.com)

Junior: Ok Esther give us the low down on websites. Do we need one?

Esther Clerehan: Yes.

Whether you are junior or senior, you and your work needs to be viewable online. If you’re just starting out you can get away with one or all of the DIY sites. You should already know all the existing format/network possibilities, but we are talking Behance, Cargo, Krop, Tumblr, Loop etc.

You can only barely get away with that format searching for a job as a solo Copywriter, but if you are an Art Director or in a team, I’d hope for something more.

I’d expect a concept for starters. And a unique url.

Your website should be a portfolio that works for you while you sleep, figuratively and literally.

Make it sell. One of the biggest mistakes is to put too much on there. Leave something to show on your laptop or iPad for a face to face meeting.

Your site has less than a minute to grab an ECD or recruiter’s attention and then keep it as we surf through your profile and work.

Time how long a first time viewer might need to spend to get through the work. You might need to halve it. A short, sharp site that is easy to load will get more attention than a tricky maze that requires a lot of time loading.

Do not segment your work by media, ever.

Differentiate your work by clients or projects and show how the campaign rolls out across the various platforms.

Make your bio interesting. You don’t have to use gimmicks. It doesn’t have to be a 3D animated wiki page of afl style match stats with a chefs hat rating. The main thing is that it speaks from the heart and introduces the reader to who you are, what you have done so far, what you love and what your skills are.

Have a LinkedIn Profile. The site is rubbish but it provides the link to the dryer facts of your life, has a link to your more creative website & more personal Twitter and maybe even a hilarious reference from your babysitter or supervisor from Coles. Don’t overdo the references on LinkedIn. Too many looks needy unless you are trying to be ironic, and you’re probably too junior to get away with that.

Finally, how you connect everything is important. Great site? Check. Regularly updated? Check. Linked through LinkedIn and Twitter? Check.

The content of your site is a whole other story and a question for another day. Email me any questions at esther@clerehan.com (esther null@null clerehan NULL.com) or follow me on twitter @clerehan (http://twitter NULL.com/clerehan)

Also posted in JUNIOR-JOBS |

Jun 22, 11

The Interview Series // 47

Tony. He hangs out with rock stars (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=EmF4v8AoKv0&feature=related), wins a shit load of awards, and I’m sure gets mocked for being a little bit ‘Special’. Ha! Oh, we’re so clever. A talented Art Director by trade, Tony is the ECD of one of NZ’s top ad agencies (http://www NULL.specialgroup NULL.co NULL.nz/), and is kicking goals left right and center in the creative scene — the world over. We don’t quite know where he fitted in a beer or three with us in the midst of all that, but we managed to ask him a few questions while we could.

Junior: Where did it all begin, take us back to the start?

Tony: That should only take a minute; Design school Auckland, I got bored of just design, and started doing advertising halfway through the course, much to the confusion of my tutors. I got a job here (Auckland) at a company that no longer exists called DMB&B. I did an ad, which got a bunch of attention. Went to London, had fun for seven and a half years, spent mainly in bars. Then went to Amsterdam for two and a half years working on Volvo across Europe. Then I came back to New Zealand as the Creative Director for Generator for about two years, resigned when it was sold, started Special. Three years later, we are here.

Jr: What is your best tip for juniors starting their creative career?

T: Well besides the obvious things that you can’t control… (an older man interrupts our conversation. He looks similar to a actor off a 70′s cop show)

Older man that looks like a 70′s cop: (slightly slurred and angry tone) I thought leaving my drink and my glasses would be enough to reserve my seat while I was gone.

T: So are you saying that you want your seat back?

Jr: We can move if you want?

Older man that looks like a 70′s cop: I’ll move inside.

T: Besides things you can’t control like being really, really good or being really lucky. I’d say be positive and really enthusiastic and basically keep coming up with ideas. Don’t stop or go home early, don’t think that this idea is good enough or that will do. You’ve got to keep going. The other thing is you have to make yourself indispensable. Be hungry for everything. Everything is an opportunity — even if it is just a brief for a banner, you can still try to do something really good for it.

Jr: What is the trick to winning 8 Gold Axis awards, The Best in Show Axis, a Grand Prix at Cannes, which ranked Special as the 8th best Independent Agency in the world — then come back to New Zealand to win National Business Review Agency of the Year, Fairfax Independent Agency of the Year, as well as taking home USD $10,000 for the Grand Prix at Adstars — all in 2010?

T: Don’t sleep? Ha. I think a lot of that stuff was achieved through being ambitious. Not thinking you can or can’t do things. So I think it is really about thinking ‘why couldn’t we do this?’, or ‘why couldn’t you try and do that?’. With the Iggy thing I think there was a bit of luck in pulling that campaign off, timing and everything else worked really well, but the main thing about it was ambition – believing ‘sure we can sell this’, ‘sure we can get Iggy’, ‘sure it will work.’ The other thing about it is we started Special to do things our own way, and to do things better, and as soon as you say that — you put yourself out there. You put your neck on the chopping block. There is no hiding; people know it’s your agency and your work — you can’t blame anyone else. So you have to try really hard to avoid screwing up in public in a big way. Which means working every weekend and working every night, very late.

Jr: Was it fun hanging out with Iggy Pop?

T: Yep, he is very cool. He was pretty focused. We met him by the roof top pool at our hotel in Miami, and besides taking his shirt of in the first two minutes, he was very focused on the orchestration of it. He really looked at the different people and had already worked out in his own mind the structure of the song. He was really pleased with how the ad was received, and how much acclaim it got worldwide. We had dinner with his manager, who is a really nice Scottish guy, when Iggy was playing at the Big Day Out this year. He told us over dinner that Iggy kept talking about this Grand Prix and how much he really liked it etc, so we ended up giving it to him backstage at the Big Day Out. We thought we’d had enough use out of it so he may as well have it. He was chuffed.

Jr: How do you live a balanced life?

T: 3 of the 4 partners at Special have young kids, so we normally finish up at 5:30pm or 6pm and go home to bath time and all the rest of it. I know it doesn’t sound that rock and roll. Then we turn the laptops on again about 9:30pm. You have to work very quickly and be very focused. You can’t muck around. Then the big trick is to put down the iPhone the rest of the time you’re at home. Otherwise it is too much of a distraction.

Jr: What floats your boat when you are looking through a junior’s book?

T: I would say, actually, not ads that look like classic award winning press ads, or ads that look like they are created for Luerzers Archive. I guess I want to see ideas that are a little broader or a little bit different, as opposed to just big visual and little logo. I want to see ideas that are more engaging and involving, just interesting, different stuff really. Because what you are really looking for is how someone thinks.

Jr: How much digital should we have in our book?

T: Digital is so important. Almost everything thing you do now has a digital component to it. Good uses, or misuses of digital are great to have in your book. Often the trick is to make technology really simple. Don’t be put off if you haven’t actually made anything digital – it’s the simple, engaging ideas people will be looking for. But yeah – pack your book full of digital thinking.

Jr: What’s your best/worst junior story?

T: Nah, they’re all pretty boring really. Look, starting out is tough. Everyone knows that, you’ve got to work your socks off and hopefully you can get a chance to create some good stuff. You’ve also got to look for opportunities, not wait for them to be handed to you.

Jr: If you could do your creative career again what would you do differently?

T: Shit, I don’t know. Work at better agencies, work under better Creative Directors. I really think it is all about working with better people. It is one of the key things. It makes it more enjoyable. You respect their opinion more. If you work in agencies that want to do good work rather than agencies that want to do things for other reasons you will have a better time.

Jr: Do you think you need to be at a great agency to do great work?

T: No, but it definitely helps. By a huge amount, but no, that is not essential, but it helps a heck of a lot.

Jr: What keeps you inspired?

T: I guess all creatives like the excitement of ideas. They like seeing things come to life and getting out there in the world and seeing how the public react to it. I also think creatives are highly competitive so that always keeps you motivated. I think also personal pride and fear of embarrassment keep you motivated. You don’t want to do stuff that people don’t like. Even though there is nothing wrong with doing work that polarizes, there is nothing wrong with doing work that a bunch of people don’t like as long — as the right people react the right way to it, in other words, as long as it creates the right results. Was that an answer?

Jr: Yeah, that was good. What is your best/worst moment in advertising?

T: Well one of the best moments was winning our first bit of business for Special. I think that was good, basically because it says you’re up, you’re away.

The worst moment in advertising? Shit, that is a tough one, there have been lots of tough moments. I guess the worst moment is when you see an idea that you believed was going to be great, turn out not as good as it could be, for whatever reason. You kinda die a little bit inside, so yeah that is kinda the worst bit for me.

Jr: Do you have time to do other creative stuff apart from advertising – have you got a side project?

T: I used to have a few. But now I have young children, and Special. Both are really consuming.

Jr: Where do you see yourself in 10 years?

T: That’s a good question. I’d be a bit old by then. That’s a tough one, I don’t really have a smart enough answer for that one, sorry!

Jr: How does the NZ/Australian junior creative scene stack up to the rest of the world?

T: I think New Zealand has had a really good history in Young Guns and young teams doing really well in award shows. I think NZ punches above it’s weight creatively, as we said at Axis last year, per capita NZ had more Cannes Lions than anywhere else in the world. Also, New Zealand junior creatives seem to be quite broad and flexible thinkers, which I think really helps.

Jr: How do you get ideas?

T: I think it is about distilling the business problem down and down, until you can get it into a malleable size in terms of focusing on what we really are trying to do here. Once you strip away all the layers of the brief, you get to what you are really trying to achieve. Then once you’ve got that in your mind, then you can generally work out interesting ways of bringing that to life. But I think it is about keeping things simple, that doesn’t mean you can’t be spectacular. But it is getting right down to that thing you want to say, and then doing something extraordinary with it. And throw in a rockstar, it always helps.

Interview by: Jono Kemps

Also posted in THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Tags: ADVERTISING, AUCKLAND, SPECIAL, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, TONY BRADBOURNE

May 11, 11

The Interview Series // 46

Chances are you’ve done AWARD School if you’re working, or wanting work in an advertising agency in Australia or NZ. For those of you not in the know — AWARD School isn’t a place that you end up learning how to craft trophies and useless dust collecting items to hang in your agency reception. It’s an industry-led 16 week part-time crash course in ideas — figuring out how to make the shiz that wins the awards in the first place. Usually the cream of the crop, i.e the top ten, land themselves a gig. Sounds awesome, right? Especially if you’ve placed 1-10. We wanted to do an interview for the fifty-odd others in the course that find themselves a few grand poorer and unsure what to do next. We spoke to Ben O’Brien — this CD and partner of Kastner & Partners (http://kastnerandpartners NULL.com) in Sydney used to run the Award School show. We met up with him for a liquid-lunch in Pyrmont and we got his thoughts on the matter.

Junior: The best place to start is probably the beginning. Where did you start off in advertising? Actually, we read somewhere you started in fashion, is that right?

Ben O’Brien: That’s very true, yes. Out of uni my first career was fashion design. I was working while I was at uni at R.M. Williams, and went out to the factory a couple of times. I thought the process seemed pretty easy. I pulled apart a whole bunch of my favourite jeans on the dining room table at home, and worked out the patterns. And I started manufacturing jeans. I made 2000 pairs of these jeans, and they sold pretty well. Made another 2000, then another 2000, and ended up with three stores in Adelaide.

Jr: What was your label called?

B: It was called ‘Bullet Proof Jeans’. People would ask if they were really bullet proof, and I’d say ‘Put them on, and I’ll get a gun and we’ll find out.’ And it was a good business, made some money, and I had a lot of fun doing it. You reach a point where you either invest a lot of money into it and take it to the next level, and you have to make a decision about whether you are going to go down that track or not. At the time I had some friends who were working in a design agency down the street, and I used to go there for drinks on a Friday afternoon. And they’d have these beautifully designed brochures, but terrible spelling mistakes. I used to get out a red pen and go through all the mistakes, and they started paying me for it with beers. I found it more interesting than the fashion thing. So, I just made a decision one Friday afternoon – am I going to keep going with fashion, or get into some form of copywriting? Even as a proofreader, maybe. I didn’t understand what the jobs were in advertising.

Jr: And so you’d always been good at English?

B: Yeah, I did English and philosophy at Uni. There wasn’t a huge calling for professional philosophers, so there wasn’t a future there. But advertising seemed to be fun. They were designing, I was proofreading, making a couple of dollars, and I thought I should make a go of it. So I put together a folio of what I thought was advertising, but it turned out to be a very bad portfolio. Somehow I got in the door of KWP! in Adelaide where Andrew Killey and Pete Withy very kindly said that I could work there for free. That was really good of them. So I sat in there and worked for free for a few months, and put together some ads. In the end they backpaid me to when I started and produced a few of the ads that I’d made, and that was my start in advertising. So I took the portfolio that I’d built up there over six months to Clemenger where Pete Watt interviewed me and gave me a job at Clemenger on a very small salary. I ended up working there for a couple of years with some guys, Jack Davies and Simon Briscoe. They decided to move up to Sydney, and when they arrived they rang me up and said man, you gotta get over here. This town has a lot of things happening and it’s a really cool place. So I rang around, made a bunch of interviews, snuck out of work for a week and came and met every creative director in Sydney and eventually ended up getting a job at Foster, Nunn, Loveder. Which unfortunately doesn’t exist anymore. But it was a great agency at the time. They were a tiny place but doing Volkswagen and Sony, which were amazing accounts. I got out a whole bunch of ads, and it was a really good start.

Jr: Did you find it hard to move from Adelaide over to Sydney, with the different kinds of work you were doing back home?

B: Not really. I learned some very valuable things at KWP! They had an account at the time called Sip & Save, which is a chain of bottle shops in Adelaide. Sip & Save had an ad in the paper every week. Every week they’d get a brief, which was a special, e.g a carton of beer for x dollars, and it would relate generally to one or two of their stores. It might be by the beach, in the mountains, in the city, etc. They were simple briefs, but you didn’t have much to work with. You’d have the picture of the bottle, or the carton of beer. What they’d built up was a personality of the brand, which was a quirky, larrikin kind of style. My job was basically writing headlines. I’d write hundreds of headlines a week – I’d fill up my floor with little boxes with headlines, and I got incredibly good at drawing a carton of beer, and a bottle of wine. I can still pull that out whenever I’m required to draw a bottle of wine! That was an incredibly good foundation for understanding the personality of a brand, but through words. The art of writing a really good headline is a little bit lost. I think that you couldn’t have had a better start in advertising than being forced to write a million headlines. The ad had to be off to the paper on a Friday afternoon, and every Thursday in the middle of the day Pete would walk into my office and I’d have thousands of headlines spread over the floor. He’d kick out of the way the ones he didn’t like, and then hopefully we’d end up with two or three that he did, which we’d present to the client. And then they’d choose one, we’d lay it up, and then we’d start the process all over again. It’s just an amazing thing that is a little bit lost now. Simple ideas, presented in a really simple way.

Jr: Sounds like a great start. How many months did you do that for?

B: Six months. Hundreds and hundreds of headlines.

Jr: Do you remember any of them?

B: Well, if I tell you one, people will say ‘that’s a shit headline’! But there was a carton of beer, which was $19.99. And it was 1999. So the headline was ‘Party like it’s $19.99’. You know what I mean, just a classic matter of going bang, that’s a solid headline with personality. It was 1999, so we are going back in time a fair way!

Jr: It’s so hard to find junior writers, who can actually write…

B: Exactly. Unfortunately there was no AWARD School when I was in Adelaide and I started off, so there was no option. I just kind of had to fight my own way. AWARD School is an incredibly great door opener. I have run AWARD School in the past, and I’m a huge fan of it. It’s a really fantastic way for people to get a foot in the door who have no other way in. Say you are a bus driver out west, for example, you are interested in creativity and advertising, but where do you start. That in a way is the purpose of AWARD School. A lot of people give it a hard time because it’s not digital enough, or focused enough. That’s not really the point of it. The point of it is to give people a way into the industry. And I don’t think that it’s just for advertising creatives. A powerful idea is powerful whether it’s a script for a movie, a product, etc. If you understand the power of a simple creative idea you can use that in your industry. People do it one or two times, just because it focuses you on what you want to do, and maybe it’s a good way to decide not to do advertising too. It’s hardcore pressure in AWARD School. I think it’s a very valuable course.

Jr: First folios are always very convoluted. Too many ideas on every page. And it’s a really valuable thing to teach people who have a talent for visuals or words to hone their ideas.

B: I think the question of, “Are you a writer or are you an art director”, and people who get to the end of AWARD school and still can’t decide – that is a very bizarre thing. There’s a very separate set of skills for those two jobs. Some people come in and like pictures, and think therefore they should be an art director. You actually have to have skills for these jobs. As a writer, you have to have an interest in words. It’s a skill built up over many years. I don’t think it has to be taught, but you have to have an interest in reading. And know how to use punctuation, and grammar. I had a Brazilian guy once who came out from Brazil and was working in our office, but English was a second language. I couldn’t give him any writing tasks because he literally couldn’t write. His ideas were good, but the writing wasn’t. I can’t proof read everything and be on top of everything all the time – so it makes you unemployable in a small agency. And the same thing goes for Art Directors – there are some Photoshop skills and InDesign skills that you pretty much have to have. The days of over the shoulder art director are over. I think it’s a shame because there are some very talented people who don’t have the Mac skills, but in a small agency like ours, it would be very difficult to employ someone who didn’t have them.

Jr: You’re essentially employing two people – a studio operator, and an art director.

B: Exactly, and at the moment I can’t afford to employ two people.

Jr: Totally. Hey, do you want another drink?

B: Sure.

Jr: (Leaves to get more drinks..)

B: (to the recording device (http://www NULL.old-picture NULL.com/american-history-1900-1930s/pictures/Listening-Recording-Device NULL.jpg)): You better make me sound smart. Or else. (laughs)

Jr: (Returns with two beers.) The folio that you end up with out of AWARD School is very ideas based. If you were going to give advice to a young wannabe copywriter, in terms of the folios that you see these days, how best do you think that they can demonstrate that they can actually write? Do you still think you should still have one long copy ad to show that you can write?

B: I think that your portfolio defines what you want to do. Looking at folios, you can’t help but pigeon hole people depending on how their folio is. For that reason, I think that if you want to sell yourself as an ideas machine, then your portfolio should be full of ideas. If you want to sell yourself as a graphic designer, then it should be full of graphic design ideas. If you want to sell yourself as a brochure writer, then your portfolio is full of brochures. And it’s very important that you get that balance right of what it is that you want to do in your job. I think that if you want to work at a big, good agency, and you want to work in the creative department, then your folio should be full of good ideas. I don’t care if they are visual or written ideas, but as long as they are single minded, on brief, clever ideas, that is what I’m attracted to. I think that there are aspects of the job that anyone can do, but the ideas is the really hard part. If you can come up with ideas then you’re valuable. If you can write as well, then you’re even more valuable. If you can art direct too, then you’re even more so. The ideas are the important bit. For me it’s important to demonstrate that you can write, but I think that you can go overboard. I can usually tell if people can write just by reading a couple of paragraphs and talking to them. If they can communicate well, then that’s enough for me. I wouldn’t fill up my portfolio with philosophy essays from uni or anything like that. You can easily pigeonhole yourself by overloading your folio with writing rather than ideas.

Jr: So ideas are king.

B: Absolutely. They are the most important thing in advertising. And in business. I like to look at the work that we do from a business perspective as to how powerful it is rather than some hard to pinpoint ideas sense. It has to relate to business. Which is something that I learnt when running AWARD School. We got to listen to twelve speakers – and I was really fascinated by David Nobay’s speech, who was so focused on the business side of what he was doing that I think it brought some perspective, even for me, and I’ve been in the game for a while. It made me think. I think a lot of creatives lose sight of the business perspective of what we do.

Jr: It seems like a good idea – to understand the business side of the business you work in.

B: Yeah, I have an interest in business. I like to think I have an interest in the business of our clients. Rather than get too worried about my peers and what other people in the industry think about our creative work, I’m interested in what my clients think and how the creative work is affecting their business.

Jr: And it’s their money we’re spending after all.

B: Yes. When I was associate CD at JWT, I was working on Kellogg’s, which is a business driven marketing company – they understand that marketing is the most important part of their business, because they’re still selling Cornflakes, and their products aren’t really changing. So what changes? Only the marketing. And the marketing affects their business directly so they can measure it in every possible way. Having the creative director in their business really interested in their sales figures, which is literally the business — that opened them up and we became friends on a business level. As a result we had valuable conversations about how really good creative work can effect their business, and we ended up in a really good place, rather than using an ‘us and them’ approach.

Jr: So basically, you think taking that interest helped you to sell in better work?

B: Totally. I’m very proud of the work that we did on Kellogg’s in the two years that I was there. It was super creative, and it sold a shitload of cereal basically. I think that was a really good relationship. I think a lot of creatives forget that we are in business, we aren’t artists.

Jr: At what stage in your career did you aspire to take the next step and become creative director? Did you actively try or did you sort of fall into it?

B: I always wanted to be a creative director from the first minute I started.

Jr: It’s funny because some people really don’t want it.

B: I’ve always enjoyed the process of helping people make great ideas. Even if they aren’t my ideas.

Jr: Obviously – you did AWARD School teaching.

B: Yes, and I give a lecture twice a year as part of AdSchool on creativity. I really enjoy tutoring AWARD School for three reasons. 1) The most important is that it keeps me on my toes. It’s just too good of a reminder that a whole lot of people want my job, and I need to keep my act together. I’ve got to stay on the edge, and up to date. The second is to look for people, up and coming talent, and the third reason is just a general interest in helping people get good ideas somewhere. You can get as much enjoyment out of that as you can from your own idea. I really do like helping people fulfill their ideas.

Jr: You learn a lot as well?

B: Definitely. I love it when there’s a completely unusual way of tackling a problem that I hadn’t thought of. I find it inspiring. Sometimes I find it quite sobering, humiliating almost. But it makes me better. Maybe I’m doing it for selfish reasons almost, because I think it helps me in the process.

Jr: We read somewhere that you learn a lot putting into words what we do in terms of thinking and creating better ideas, that if you can sort of channel that into a sentence and teach others it will make you a better creative.

B: I think the difference between a creative department and AWARD School is that you don’t have to tell your creative department why you don’t like something. You can just say nah, nah, nah, yes, but in AWARD School, that’s not valuable. You have to be able to give people a decent explanation as to why it’s not a good idea or why it is a good idea, and that makes you think about it. I think you reach a point where you know instinctively whether it’s a good idea or not, but to put that in words is quite valuable and you do that every Thursday night. So yeah, I think that there is a value to that as well and that helps you talk to your clients, too, and describe to them why your ideas are good, and why they will have an impact.

Jr: So, Kastner & Partners – you’ve got offices all around the world. Crazy.

B: It’s what they call a boutique multinational. It’s independent, owned by one guy.

Jr: So there’s not so many partners.

B: Nope, there’s Mr Kastner, and there’s two partners here in Sydney. We run it like it’s our own business. So whilst we have obviously the international connections and that’s helpful, we run our own clients here in Australia completely separately. Our second biggest account is Centro Shopping Centres. That’s driving us to grow, which is leading us to pitch for more things, and the agency is steadily growing. And that’s a really exciting phase for Kastner & Partners at the moment, and we’re hiring a lot of people.

Jr: You’re going to get lots of emails.

B: I want lots of emails. We tend to do a lot of our hiring through social networking — Facebook and Twitter, are the main ways that we find our staff. We’ve doubled in the last ten months or so, and want to do it again this year. It is an exciting process so I’ve learnt a lot about the business of advertising. I’ve worked at a lot of places; JWT, DDB, Y&R, and in big agencies business comes in, business goes out, and in the creative department you work and do the best you can. But now I realise that with my own business it’s hard to get new clients, and people are expensive, there are costs, and I’m understanding a lot more about our business and making that work as well as the creative work, and trying to do that whilst building an agency, this is really valuable stuff that you wouldn’t learn in the positions that I’ve had. It’s been a steep learning curve over the last year.

Jr: In the position you are in now your eyes have been opened to what is ‘behind the curtain’ of the ad business? What advice would you pass back down the chain to us juniors?

B: I think that having seen all the business, still the most important thing in advertising is ideas. Simple, great, ideas. And you’ll be able to sell a simple great idea to anybody, but you have to have those ideas. What I’ve noticed over the last few years is younger people coming into advertising have a bit of an attitude of, ‘Well I finished AWARD School, now, where is my job?’ And that’s wrong. Out of that huge group there is a certain number of people who have a really great work ethic, and those people do still exist but there seem to be fewer of them around. If you can make yourself irreplaceable, invaluable, then you have got a really great career in advertising. But that takes a lot of hard work. I think a lot of people are really slack and they aren’t putting in the time or the effort that it takes to make yourself valuable. The valuable people will do really well, and the people that don’t will get left behind. Hard work is really important. Those that strive for a better idea, there’s always a better idea in any situation, and the people that take the time and put in the effort to get to that better idea will do well. And the people that don’t will end up working in a… I don’t want to say this because I used to work in the business, but a bottle shop.

Jr: Sip & Save.

B: They’ll end up working in Sip & Save. And not writing their ads.

Jr: Did you get lots of mentoring at KWP! back in those days?

B: Some of the things that I now say to my AWARD School students are the things that they told me back then. I think that a classic quote that my first creative director said something very important to me that I’ve told a lot of people.. ‘When you start out in advertising, you have a lot of good ideas, you just don’t know which ones they are’. And I think that that is absolutely true, and that’s why in AWARD school I formalised the pens and paper rule only, because I think people waste too much time mac-ing up shit ideas when they should be pressing on to find great ideas.

Jr: And they’re precious about them.

B: Exactly. Whereas the people that write down a hundred ideas, there’s got to be something good in there rather than spending a whole week mac-ing up your one idea. I think if you can find someone that you trust who can help you work out which ideas are the good ideas – whether it’s your AWARD School tutor or whether it’s a CD is critical in our business, because it’s not always what you think. There have been ads that I thought was the best one and I’ve presented it and the CD has asked for more. My CD at Foster, Nunn, Loveder picked out an ad that was my first awarded ad for Volkswagen, and it probably wasn’t the one that I would have picked.

Jr: AWARD School, wow, this is like a big ad for AWARD School! So I have one more question about it – obviously it’s started up again for this year. What advice do you give for people who don’t finish in the top ten, but are still mustard keen to get out there. They’ve got a folio of stuff, but they didn’t make it to the top ten. What would you say they should do?

B: I also was lucky enough to organise LaunchPad at DDB and start up The Deep End at JWT. I have spent a lot of time talking to people who have come in who didn’t finish in the top ten in AWARD school. I think that I’ve given internships to people who came much lower. Obviously life is going to be easier for those that came in the top ten. There’s no creative director going out of their way to hire the person who came 80th. They start at the top of the list, and work their way down. I think that it’s certainly not the time for anyone to give up. When you finish AWARD school it’s the beginning of your career. You don’t put down your pad and pen, and give up. There are a lot of people who only just “get it” late in the AWARD School process. Some of them come back and do AWARD School again. Others get it, go back, and reevaluate their portfolio. I think your folio should be constantly updated. It’s not about a number, it’s not about where you are in a list, it’s about your ideas, your passion, and your work ethic. A person that came in the top ten that’s really slack, over a person who came 80th who is really passionate, has good ideas, and is willing to be directed, and willing to improve their book – I think that person is probably more valuable. Don’t give up.

Jr: I like it. It’s good.

Also posted in THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Tags: ADVERTISING, AWARD SCHOOL, BEN O'BRIEN, KASTNER AND PARTNERS, KWP!

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