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    Tag Archives: JOB HUNTING

    The Interview Series // 24

    woody

    Most interviews we read in magazines are shit. It’s what inspires us to do what we do. That and other magazines that do brilliant interviews. Magazines like SneakerFreaker – Melbourne’s very own incredibly good and culturally important international publishing success. Founded, edited and owned by the original sneaker freaker himself, Woody has built SF into a global behemoth. He’s also seen his fair share of young upstarts float through his office, lived and worked overseas, moved from career to career, started a family, and even has SF translated into Spanish. Which means he has some fascinating shit to say and some incredibly crucial advice to give. As usual, over many a beer, we sat and talked for hours. Ergo, this fucker is long. But that’s cool, cause the ones who need to read it most have a lot of time on their hands. So grab a tea, put on your headphones and use this as a guide to figuring out what the hell you’re gonna do for the next twenty years.

    Junior: Hey Woody. What’s your coming of age story? When were you at uni?

    Woody: I spent five good years doing the Media course at RMIT in Melbourne. I was involved in a bunch of stuff and ended up becoming the co-editor of the student newspaper, Catalyst, which was literally a catalyst for me in terms of how my life panned out. I was introduced to a whole bunch of people who’d been the editors before and I ended up living with them for years, and for some reason they took me under their wing, which was weird because I was a wildman from the suburbs. Fitzroy was a very creative place then. We started a magazine from our house called Radar and had these awesome parties in the bank vault where we lived on Smith St. They were good times. I hate getting nostalgic when we’re only one question in…

    Jr: Ha, man, you can do whatever you want one question in – it’s your interview. So tell me more about Catalyst; the student newspaper.

    W: Oh yeah. So because we won an election to edit the newspaper, all of a sudden we had to learn how to make it; you know, write, design and create the whole thing. We were the first editors to get a Macintosh computer too. It was totally primitive before that point. We started the year with a bromide camera which we used to put screens on images for manual paste-up, as well as creating multiple tones for hand-made colour work which we did with scalpels. My memories involve a lot of sliced fingers and layouts lost in the wax machine. When we saw a scanner for the first time, we were really, really impressed. Actually my entire design career started when my friend Bert showed me how to move things around on the Mac screen. It’s hard to imagine how boring life was before the machines existed. No one I knew was a graphic designer. It was a trade, like being a plumber. People spent years learning how to do things in a really mechanical sort of way. When the computer came along, all of a sudden, you could have fun with a machine and make stuff. Straight away I really got into design which was totally unexpected. I never thought about a career in design at high school, where art classes were seen merely as a bludge. Random things can spin your life off in a whole new direction, it’s the kind of thing your mum tells you but you never believe her.

    Jr: Damn straight. As long as you open yourself up to happy accidents you’ll be fine for sure. So we know you moved to London for a while after uni. What brought on the London thing?

    W: I’d encourage everyone to head for the hills immediately after school finishes, because you’ll never get a better time to do it. But the real reason I left was because I almost got involved in some trouble with the fuzz after doing the O-book where we wrote the usual student articles about shoplifting and taking drugs and shoplifting while on drugs and not paying for tram tickets. All the cliches.

    Jr: Ha! Wow. Really? That was you?

    W: Oh yeah, it was par for the course in those days. It was a tradition to stir the pot so we just rewrote the same articles over and over every year. I think a year or two after my indiscretions they nailed the editors of Rabelais (another student newspaper) for the exact same type of content and it seriously fucked them for years – so going to London was a great move.

    Jr: Sounds like it was. So what was the plan?

    W: I thought I could parlay my limited experience into something design related, but all I really knew was that I didn’t want to work in a pub like every other aussie dingbat. I’m pleased to say I did one day as a street cleaner and that was enough motivation for me. I got so, so close to a design job at NME, which would have been awesome. I also made the final two for Penthouse as well. That would have been interesting for sure.

    Jr: So were you into ‘The Face (http://www NULL.flickr NULL.com/groups/thefacemagazine/pool/)’ and all those types of magazines coming out of the UK at the time?

    W: I was obsessed. I never felt iD so much but I loved Raygun (http://www NULL.flickr NULL.com/photos/joekral/sets/72157621244439899/) and The Face. From a design point of view, Neville Brody (http://en NULL.wikipedia NULL.org/wiki/Neville_Brody)’s work was great but it was the mix of content that hooked me. The Face made London seem underground and wicked cool and it had fashion and art and politics and serious stuff as well as loads of club news and even it has to be said, quite a few sneakers. It was probably the most effective marketing tool any city has ever had but you go there and you find that it’s a grey depressive shithole. But that’s only one visual side of London, the other is that it has the most vigorous youth culture – certainly it’s the top city for music in my opinion. I really regret not keeping my collection of The Face, I had years and years of them but they were too heavy to lug from house to house.

    Jr: Ha, awesome. What year did you go?

    W: 1993 or something.

    Jr: OK, here’s a good question: For a lot of fresh faced uni kids that go overseas, the ‘big break’ rarely comes. They haven’t got any contacts, they haven’t done any work yet, so they’re not even that good.

    W: Well the thing is they’re pretty much unemployable. Sorry to break it to you kids but it’s the truth, no matter how cocky you are. I think bullshitting is perfectly acceptable in order to get a break, just be sure you can do what you say you can do. I was fortunate enough to get picked up by a freelance agency. I also went to the UK at a time when no one really had the skills that I thought I had, so it was a bit easier in hindsight. My big break was to learn on the job at someone’s expense even if I taught myself.

    Jr: What were the skills?

    W: Well, I mean, desktop design as it used to be called. At that time it was Quark Express, a very early version of Photoshop and Illustrator – so the programs are still the same, but at that time no one knew how to use them. You couldn’t learn it anywhere. It wasn’t in the tertiary system. So I turned up to London expecting them to be high tech and super advanced but then realised I was one of maybe a few hundred people in the city at the time who knew anything at all about Macs.The advertising agency I worked for had no computers except for the receptionist’s PC. Everything in the creative department was done by hand and illustrators did all the mock ups with Yoken markers. It was seriously like the Dark Ages.

    Jr: So who picked you up?

    W: I started working for a few freelance agencies. I bought a suit to wear to big banks to create flow charts which I did for about three or four months.

    Jr: Did you make much money?

    W: I think I earned ten pounds an hour or something like that, which was pretty sharp in those days, certainly better than pulling pints. Luckily my agency really liked me and they gave me a crack at a job that was going at a small advertising agency in SoHo.

    Jr: How long were you in London all up?

    W: Quite a while. I developed a really bodgy English accent that got me through. I guess you could say I was slightly overstaying my welcome, officially speaking.

    Jr: Ha, yeah we know the one. Did you make friends when you were there?

    W: Yeah. I made all my friends, still ten or more years later, based on this time.

    Jr: Really?

    W: Yeah. All my closest English friends except one have emigrated here to Melbourne.

    Jr: Wow! Really? Why?

    W: It’s a great place to live. To come here from London and have sunshine and space and freedom and this ‘Neighbours’ lifestyle dare I say it, it gets more and more attractive as you get into your 30s. One of my oldest friends even had his mum emigrate. I think going back to London now would be pretty devastating from a lifestyle point of view. Melbourne has its weaknesses, but the lifestyle isn’t one, although with the price of houses now, we’re in danger of it becoming unaffordable for anyone creative or less than committed to the corporate grind.

    Jr: A lot of people think the same way I suppose. Although London has all the culture and so on.

    W: When you’re in your twenties and you’re mad for it, for sure. If you’re going out all night, every night, it’s a great place to live. It was absolutely brilliant, there was always something entertaining to do.

    Jr: Did you do that? Did you go out all night, every night, while you were working?

    W: I gave it a good nudge!

    Jr: What happened when you came home?

    W: After the usual case of mild post-travelling blues, I worked in advertising for a year at Patterson Bates (GPY&R). It wasn’t a great time for the company; I think they lost a lot of pitches. It was ok. I wasn’t excited about what I was doing. It wasn’t that creative. Maybe I should have been pushier and tried to get into writing TV ads or something. But my priorities were elsewhere, I was DJ’ing and organizing events at night and doing other stuff that was a lot more fun.

    Jr: Did you like the advertising industry?

    W: Yes and no. I was a little disenchanted creating junkmail which to be honest, which is what I did. In the 80s, it must have been a wild scene with so much money floating about. In London I arrived at the tail end of that and they were all misty eyed about these crazy times when, you know, ‘Steve rode his Harley down the hallway and crashed, knocking himself out on the photocopier’ or one classic I remember was when a new guy called Nobby joined the firm. The story was on his first day he managed to spill a Flaming Lamborghini on the boss and set his shirt on fire at dinner. In Australia it was much more conservative. I had green hair. It wasn’t going to end well and I wasn’t thinking about a career. I never have really.

    Jr: The employment prospects haven’t always been great for school leavers have they?

    W: Nope. When I left Uni, there was nothing going on. I think a lot of kids leaving university are facing a similar sort of situation. The pressure is to get a break somehow, but beyond that, if you are useful and you can justify your own existence at a company they will always find room for you. The hard thing is when you have no experience and you can’t prove that you can or can’t do something. You have to make yourself valuable.

    Jr: Is that something that you had to work on? Making yourself valuable? Or were you just like that?

    W: I wouldn’t say I ‘worked on it’. I just worked. The harder you work, the luckier you get. I was annoying, quite frankly. I got into radio by annoying people, and ended up working at various radio stations while at Uni. I bugged people til they let me have a go. I think that just being super keen is all you can really expect from somebody at a young age.Think about it, you can do whatever you want with your life but only if you have a crack. However, I think there are some things you can teach people and some things you can’t. An understanding of the world and how things interrelate – you can’t teach anyone that. It’s an instinctive thing. If you are going to work in fashion, you need to ‘get it’. There’s no point just trying to be in that industry because you think it’s glamorous or you’ll get to root models. You’ll be chewed up by someone who’d climb over your dead body for a job.

    Jr: Have you gone through your fair share of young people who aren’t diligent at Sneaker Freaker?

    W: We’ve had a pretty good track record. A few times I’ve tried to advertise and get someone out of college but never really found the right person. We’re a really small outfit and I don’t have time to teach someone from scratch. It’s frustrating for me but I learned that you can’t expect too much initially, you have to be patient and let them work it out. I’ve had some pretty funny experiences. One kid trying out for a job told me that I couldn’t teach him anything about Photoshop, and he’d probably been using it for two years. He was actually quite skilled, but I think his attitude alone rang bells for a potential employer. You want a little bit of cockiness but you don’t want someone who doesn’t listen and doesn’t think that they can’t learn. You mainly want accuracy and speed, that’s super important. That is one thing that the school environment doesn’t seem to promote in my experience. Young kids get tired and need a little nap to get back on track. It’s a grind. You’ve got to be productive 8 or 9 hours a day.

    Jr: There’s a lot of talent going around, but not a lot of work ethic. I suppose there’s always going to be someone more talented than you, but it’s about how passionate you are and how hard you work.

    W: True. I gotta say, the work ethic of Gen Y kids is a hot topic amongst my peers right now. I think that’s because they are now managing staff for the first time, but there’s definitely a sense that the GFC could be a good thing as it might take a few uppity kids down a peg or two. I’m not so sure this generation’s work ethic is that much different from my own Gen X clique… just a little more distracted by the overdose of technology.

    Jr: What’s the most valuable skill to have aside from being keen?

    W: A knack for networking. It’s a shit name for it but it is what it is. You can’t teach someone how to do it, though you might learn the secret someday through observation. It’s a vague business. Some people just have a knack at making friends with other people who can help them. That’s why starting a mag or writing a blog can become so universally useful. You meet people. Forget about the rest of it, meeting people and connecting the dots is crucial. You can base an entire career on knowing people.

    Jr: Oh god, don’t get me started on social media and ‘networking’. I think we’ve got to be careful, you know. Everyone seems to get so caught up in the conversation and being part of the technology that they actually forget to do stuff. Everyone is talking about it, making comments, but not actually creating anything.

    W: No shit! I picked up a biz card recently where this kid had over 12 ways of contacting them and I wondered how the hell he gets anything done? People get obsessed with Twitter, but six months ago something different was happening. I’ve seen it with trends, and in footwear, certain things have come and gone so fast I’m still scratching my head. I must admit the pace of change recently has really kicked up a gear. We’re now facing a world where TV, newspapers, magazines and even radio are no longer the foundation of our media diet. The porn industry is on its knees! Books are on the way out as well, at least in a printed sense. I’m really intrigued as to whether this new Kindle could really do for books what the iPod has done for music.

    snkrfrkr

    Jr: That’s an interesting point. Sneaker Freaker is kinda like a book. It’s a bit nicer than the usual magazine really. You must sell a few more older issues than any other magazine. Do you think the content goes out of date?

    W: It does and it doesn’t. You can’t buy those shoes anymore, but every magazine becomes a document of its time so you can go back and still enjoy them as a snapshot of the years they were made. We sell a lot of our old issues, more than most magazines perhaps. Magazines are a good barometer of style and opinion and when you go back you do get a good insight into the times. We’ve been going about seven years or so and really the first one was pretty raw when you look at it. I have to say it was actually designed that way on purpose, but still, it was pretty loose. I wish I could have seen into the future.

    Jr: Ha, I totally have that copy. How many people were working on it then?

    W: The magazine didn’t have any staff for probably the first four years. Hans DC came to work with me part time helping in various ways. I wish I’d ramped it up earlier but I just didn’t have the foresight to go for it. I was also still working on my label called Wankuss (with my friend Alasdair McKinnon), as well as doing design work for films like Ned Kelly and Queen of the Damned and other stuff. I liked to keep my options open.

    Jr: Really? It was just you? Wow. Back then a lot of clever people put out free magazines. I used to read Stu Magazine and Large whenever I could get my hands on them.

    W: Stu was good. Vice came along. And Lucky. There were about seven free magazines floating around. Our first edition was free then I decided to charge for it. People still think it’s free.

    Jr: Yeah it seemed to be the heyday of free magazines.

    W: Yep. Not sure we’ll see too many new ones open up for business. But I have a killer idea for a new magazine that would be awesome which only proves how out of touch I really am.

    Jr: Haha. Maybe. Maybe not. You’d probably be surprised. I’m sure that’s what people said when you came up with an idea So why sneakers?

    W: I thought that I was one of the few people who were into sneakers, but then I could see it was bigger than I thought – there were a lot of guys like me who had 50 or 60 shoes in their closet but we didn’t know each other. Sneakers are one of those things that men can talk animatedly, dudes are really into their feet. It used to be about Air Max and chunky runners but it’s flipped on its head now. Pointer and Clae and Gourmet are doing very well, brands with simple things, not super jacked-up runners. Trends are definitely changing. You can’t stop progress, but it’s easy to feel like a dinosaur.

    Jr: Was it difficult starting up a magazine?

    W: Not really, because I only needed a few thousand dollars to get it printed. Then by issue two people wanted to buy it. Our first international customer was a very well known store in Paris.

    Jr: Wow! How did they find you?

    W: Through our website. We were one of the first online sneaker sites. The reason they are so renowned is because they find out about something before anyone else. They’re the top of their game. I was in there last week and it was mental how many people go in there. It’s like a tourist attraction! Once we went international I also had to learn about things like international shipping, which became crucial to the business growing. Boring things like this are so important and can be the difference between survival and death.

    Jr: That’s the thing with publishing in Australia. You can print it here but then you’ve gotta ship all those heavy issues overseas. Some magazines print overseas and distribute it that way. Do you ever do that?

    W: Once about five years ago we sold out of an issue in about a week and we got another order of 2000 copies. The reprint quote locally was nuts, so I found a printer in China and got them shipped straight out of there. I haven’t done it since. We’re still printed in Melbourne, five blocks from my house. It’s just too stressful to not know where your job and therefore your whole life is at. I remember all too well a launch party in Sydney where the magazines were still on a truck locked in the warehouse as a result of a snap industrial action.

    Jr: Can you raise a family on a niche publication?

    W: I can now. In the first few years I never had staff to pay so the overheads were low. I learned over time how to make money from a variety of sources. You can sell magazines, advertising, online banners, syndicate your content and do marketing for brands and product development. I have to say in every respect, I learned the hard way. Piece by piece. I learned a lot from watching other people and making mistakes. I also had to learn to trust people in other countries. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn’t. I’ve been pretty lucky in that department.

    Jr: And I guess you have that giant monolith Nike to buoy you up.

    W: Nike has always been good to me, right from the start. But we are also supported by nearly every other brand in the footwear biz. If you wanna start a niche magazine, make sure what you do is invaluable to the marketing managers of multinational companies or you’ll forever be pushing shit uphill.

    Jr: How would someone who really wants to work in big brand sneakers approach getting a job at a company like that? How do they go about it?

    W: Actually we did a feature about how to get into the business a while back. There’s a few simple things. Every brand needs accountants and pen pushers but if you’re talking about shoe design, a lot of the guys at Nike and other brands are originally architects or sculptors, in other words they had an idea of three-dimensional space that could be translated to footwear. Shoe design school didn’t really exist til recently. Doing research on any company that you want to work for is a must. Knowing everything about them, but also having an understanding of how they hire is essential. If you want to work for adidas, find out how to get in contact with their HR department. Start on the phones or in their factory outlet and build your way up. There are plenty of CEOs who started in the mailroom. It’s also thinking strategically. Working for Sneaker Freaker could be a good way to get in as it’s an insight into the industry. Foot Locker wouldn’t hurt either. You need to know what you’re talking about and have a foundation of knowledge.

    Jr: Loving sneakers isn’t enough at the end of the day; you have to have some sort of skill or craft.

    W: Correct. Loving something can actually be a handicap, if you wanna be a hardass about it. When you love something too much, your opinion and judgment can be clouded by sentiment. But if it was me, I’d go for the passion every time. I think one of the biggest things that kids could learn is to be persistent. Some kids expect to start as a junior and take over the company in two years. Or if you start your own thing, that you’ll be rich overnight. The reality is that businesses mature over a few years and it takes you time to work out what you are actually doing, unless you are super advanced or lucky. It’s human nature that is probably exacerbated by this frantic model we’ve built up. Everyone wants everything yesterday. If only it was that easy… whatever happened to paying your dues?

    Jr: I think that’s a wonderful point to make. Persistence is something we’re big on. But sometimes persistence isn’t even enough. You know, it’s really hard to do something big in such a small market place like Australia. Take publishing for example: If you want to get distribution of your magazines, you’ve got to be in a bigger market.

    W: That’s true, but I don’t think that’s a reason not to do anything. It’s like procrastinators who never do anything because they’re too cool to put themselves out there or they think it’ll never work so why bother. Melbourne is full of creative people, the only problem is that most of them are, like anywhere else, mildly talented at best. The most talented ones find it a struggle to attract the same benefactors they’d find in Europe or the US. Look how many talented Australians have to leave? We are a nation of 22 million, the same size as greater New York. So to answer your question, you def need to be in a bigger market, but it’s not going to happen sitting on your date in Fitzroy drinking Chai and smoking rollies. You have to work your ass off. In my own world, I realised that if I wanted to succeed beyond Australia, I learned from others that staying home in my office wasn’t gonna make it happen. I’m on the road a lot.

    Jr: Isn’t Sneaker Freaker translated into Spanish?

    W: Yeah, it has been for the past two years. It’s been going really well and we have a great partner running the office over in Barcelona. I’m pretty sure we are the first Aussie magazine to be translated into a foreign language.

    Jr: Do you ever think about moving it all overseas?

    W: I have at different times, but this is where I’m from and this is where I’m staying. The footwear industry in Australia is in Melbourne. But I think I do regret not moving a bit. Maybe I’m just not the personality type to really take it to the max… Either way, we have been successful on our own terms which is just part of the story.

    Jr: Maybe because you married and had kids. Was that the plan? To settle down?

    W: I think that cycle of life is inevitable. I wish I’d had a family earlier in hindsight, but we can all look back and say that. Luckily I have a very understanding wife who encouraged me to go for it, even if she recently confided that she thought the magazine was a crazy idea and would be lucky to last six months.

    Jr: Any plans to expand your team?

    W: I would like to find an Editor to take over next year so I can spend some time working on different ideas. We are always looking for writers. But it’s hard to find anyone who can write these days, as well as have a command of sneakers. If anyone is interested they can email info@sneakerfreaker.com (info null@null sneakerfreaker NULL.com).

    Jr: So that means that you could focus on running the business.

    W: Absolutely, I could move to the Bahamas and sit under a palm tree with my blackberry.

    Jr: And a cocktail! Any final advice for the kids who wanna start a magazine and make a living out of it?

    W: My advice is go for it. What the hell. What’s the worst that can happen? You might go bankrupt and have to flee to Brazil…  just don’t let anyone tell you something can’t be done or you’ve got a stupid idea. I had that plenty of times. How many people get rich from stupid ideas?

    DESIGN, PUBLISHING, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, WRITING | Also tagged ADVERTISING, COMMITMENT, CREATIVITY, HUNGER, INSPIRATION, LONDON, MAGAZINE, MELBOURNE, OVERSEAS, PUBLISHING, RMIT, SNEAKERFREAKER, SNEAKERS, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, WOODY, WORK, WRITING

    Tag Archives: JOB HUNTING

    Interview Series // 23 (Part One)

    daniel

    “Have you ever played the Legend of Zelda? That’s what getting a job in advertising is like.” This, my precocious and talented friends, is exactly the sort of nerdy but insightful advice you’re likely to get from Daniel Bremmer (http://peachfuzz NULL.net/), especially after two shots of Absinthe, three cocktails and a round of Coopers. We met to conduct this interview on a beautiful summer’s evening in a quaint Brooklyn establishment, and sat talking shit for hours. We talked about highschool, the New York ad industry, the Obama campaign, the Legend of Zelda and even the merits of not having sex. You see, Daniel’s a 35-year-old kid from California, freelancing in New York City, trying his hardest to save the world, and has something to say about everything. Which he’s allowed to, for he’s pretty much worked on everything, everywhere, from Microsoft to Prius to Coke and Obama. He’s also just launched a site to save health care in the U.S. named notatable.org (http://www NULL.notatable NULL.org/). But! Let. Me. Tell. You! That stuff didn’t matter after a particularly potent round of cocktails. You know what did? Talking to strangers sitting next to us, that’s what! Which we did for so long, we totally forgot we were there to do an interview, until Daniel remembered, and things got interesting…

    Daniel: Alright! Start! What do you want to ask?

    Junior: Ugh. I don’t even know anymore.

    D: Come on! I’m the one that’s supposed to be drunk, not you.

    Jr: I know!

    D: You should have been sober. You should have been drinking coffee.

    Jr: No, no! I’m all good! I swear! Alright, alright. I usually like to start with a quick rundown of where you started out, what you wanted to do, how you got into uni, and then the job, you know…

    D: My life story?

    Jr: Well… *Hiccup* …Yeah, I guess. Quick though! Two hundred words or less!

    D: Ha, OK. I’ll try. I grew up in Orange County. It was a very conservative place. My parents are somewhat hippy. We grew food in the backyard. We had pet chickens. I went to Space Camp (http://www NULL.spacecamp NULL.com/). My Dad was an engineer. My Mother was a teacher. I was the oldest child. Very idealistic. Tragedy struck. I had a brother die when I was in fourth grade. He was six months old. He was a baby. Really bad. I had a bad time in school after that. Wanted to take a class in Graphic Design, which wasn’t what it was called, it was some weird word. I signed up because I heard you got to make t-shirts. And I wanted to make t-shirts for bands I liked.

    Jr: What bands were you listening to?

    D: Well me and my friends were into this weird mix. There weren’t enough kids in my high school to have different alternative scenes. This was before Nirvana came out with Nevermind. Like, right before. Because we didn’t have enough alternative kids, we had to combine all the high schools together. All the kids would go to the goth club wearing black. Then the next week we’d go to the shoegaze concert, and we’d all be wearing corduroys and creepers. It was all the same kids. There weren’t enough kids to have different scenes; so all the kids who were into cool shit from all the different high schools were one scene.

    Jr: And where was this? California?

    D: Huntington Beach. A little conservative beach town.

    Jr: Is this like The O.C (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=yMGyl-l3qqc)? The TV show?

    D: Yeah, that’s set in Newport Beach, which borders Huntington Beach.

    Jr: So all the cool alternative kids made their own scene…

    D: It wasn’t cool though! What we did became cool after we graduated. While we were doing it, it was super dorky.

    Jr: So shoegaze and goth was super dorky.

    D: Super dorky. Everybody liked bad hair metal and R&B.

    Jr: I think this is a good opportunity to talk about schooling. A lot of high school students read these things you know. So what were you like at school?

    D: Well I never did my homework. I was a horrible student. I loved to learn and I was a gifted kid. I was in honors, but I nearly got kicked out as a freshman for skipping class.

    Jr: So did you have a problem with focus? Was that what it was?

    D: Well it was all my fault, in retrospect. I didn’t have the discipline to do it. But when you really look at it, I knew that I knew the subject material. The teacher knew that I knew the material. I knew that the teacher knew that I knew the material… Everybody knew. And I wasn’t allowed to just cut through the bullshit. No one was allowed to do that. Because you had to jump through these hoops. And that just seemed stupid. I couldn’t comprehend how that mattered. In life, especially. And sadly, at the end of the day, it didn’t matter at all.

    Jr: Yeah it doesn’t matter, but it does matter! Because it’s all about discipline and focus and sitting down and doing the work.

    D: But you know what? I am a disciplined and focused motherfucker today. I remember I had a freelancer, while I was working at SS+K (http://www NULL.ssk NULL.com/) on a project, and he wanted to go home. It was ten o’clock, there was shit to be done, and I couldn’t understand. I said, “You’re trying to go home? What the fuck is wrong with you? It’s not done. It’s only ten o’clock. Grow a pair.”

    Jr: Heh, yeah, grow a pair.

    D: “We’re doing shit. Grow the fuck up. If you want to do shit then we need to do it right.” So when it comes to that level of focus and discipline on my projects, I’m incredibly dedicated. I guess at the time, teenage me never saw the value of jumping through hoops to prove something. So anyways, you can edit all that out. No one cares about that.

    Jr: But I do think it’s important! Think about the kids! They need to know this stuff. They should feel they’re not alone and so on.

    D: Yeah, I guess so. Anyway, fast forward a bit and I went to Community College after High School, got into design, I wasn’t that good, the dot-com thing came around and suddenly I was being paid a lot of money. I still wasn’t very good. But I could learn html and I was a really mediocre designer. This was the late nineties.

    I DJ’d at a college radio station. I used to write for music magazines. I used to promote concerts. I was really involved in the underground music scene in Southern California. That was my life. It was through music that I discovered art and design.

    And then I worked my way into a really crappy Orange County ad agency called Priscomm. I was their web guy. And I saw this guy Jimmy who was the Creative Director and his job was to look at a business problem and come up with ideas that became ads, which I would then make into websites. So I thought, “So he just sits around and thinks… And comes up with ideas… And gets to pay rent that way? You can do that? That’s an option?” So I took a night class in advertising, fell in love with it, and then it all started.

    Jr: How old were you when you took a night class?

    D: Maybe mid twenties? Like 25. Maybe 26?

    Jr: You were 26 when you realized you wanted to do advertising?

    D: Yeah. I had no idea that I could do that.

    Jr: You know what the funny thing about that is. I know a whole bunch of 21, 22, 23 year olds that feel like they are over, they’re too old, by the time they get into advertising.

    D: Dude, I just stopped getting carded at bars and I’m 35. It’s the beard.

    Jr: Ha.

    D: I don’t know. I don’t know what to tell you.

    Jr: I think this is the biggest problem with juniors. They think that their time is up by 25.

    D: Sprout a pair. When I started at Art Center College of Design, the average age was 24. It very quickly changed. Now it’s down to like 18 or 19 years because of funding problems. But it used to be that it was a second career. For most of the people I know that are really good, it’s a second career.

    Jr: Well that’s what we’re kinda hearing. That back in the day when the mavericks were running the industry it was full of misfits. The dudes from Brooklyn who didn’t know what to do with their lives but were super smart and street savvy and could sell anything to anyone. Apparently they were the guys who were getting into advertising. And now it’s become full of a lot of fresh-faced marketing kids straight out of uni who think they can change the world with a social media strategy.

    D: All we need is smart people who are willing to call bullshit on everything. I have this issue. I’m freelancing at a large agency right now, I’m not going to say who they are… but you meet these people, and some of them are brilliant. It’s a large agency with a very good reputation. But sometimes you meet a person and you think, “Why are you here?” It’s filled with people who don’t understand how people communicate today. It’s like they still live in the old days of two creative guys sitting in a room who had an idea of what the world should be because they had these great lifestyles. They saw movies and did drugs at work and got paid big salaries to talk about their ideas all day. They had these ideas about what the world should be like and they turned them into awesome 30 or 60 second commercials and big lavish print ads that they shot in exotic locations. That’s over. That world still exists in some way, but it’s not relevant anymore.

    Most people in America don’t live that life. They deal with real problems. They have their own ideas. They’re used to a different type of communication where they don’t suck down what the TV tells them anymore. They tell the TV what they want to watch. And when they don’t like it, they fast-forward or they skip it, right? They don’t even fucking look at paper anymore. They do once in a while, but if it’s not relevant to them then they don’t care.

    The world of media and communication is dramatically changing and advertising works within that world. The skills that we have of, ‘I am a Copywriter. This guy is an Art Director. We get together and come up with ideas and they’re gonna look pretty and sound nice,’ is not necessarily the skill set that people who use social media, a medium that allows these people to express their ideas and control what they want, resonate with. Sometimes it is. Because I think all those people will sit down, even the most jaded among us, close the laptop, turn off the lights and watch a great fucking show. So that still exists on some level. But for the general majority of advertising, we need to figure out what these people want. What these people are interested in. We need to find a way to make our work relevant to them. I don’t think that’s the way advertising works today, and I don’t think the way we teach people to make advertising is relevant anymore. It’s fucking dumb.

    Jr: And most definitely in New York!

    D: New York is the worst! I have to live it! I sat in a room the other day to talk about a campaign for a large company’s effort in the health care industry, and it’s in a good way, they actually make things to improve health care. But I counted fourteen people in the conference room.

    Jr: Wow! Fourteen! That’s fucked!

    D: I know! Only four of them were involved in the ideation of what was happening. The meeting took about two hours. Nothing was accomplished. Which means this large American company was paying for fourteen people to sit around and feel important. For what? That’s what New York is.

    Jr: OK, so, Obama. You need to tell me about Obama, start to finish.

    D: Am I going to be forever known as the guy who did some work on Obama? Did I peak on November 4th, 2008? Am I over?

    Jr: Well generally when we interview someone, we want to have a popular hook that people can associate with. So we’re tagging you with Obama.

    D: So it’s not just my winning personality?

    Jr: No. Not at all.

    D: Ha. OK. Well, I will have to sadly disappoint you by saying that I worked on only one part of a six-agency effort to get the guy elected. This is how pathetic my little slice of history is.

    Jr: But it’s still very important!

    D: Well yes. Having said that, it was still the greatest thing I’ve ever done in my life, the greatest thing I’ve ever been a part of, and the greatest change I’ve ever had a piece of. It’s the best thing I’ve done, according to Kantian ethics… Are you familiar with Kant?

    Jr: You mean Emmanuel Kant (http://en NULL.wikipedia NULL.org/wiki/Kant), the 18th-century German philosopher from the Prussian city of Königsberg widely known as the last influential philosopher of modern Europe?

    D: Yes, that guy. So, according to Kantian ethics, the best contribution to society I’ve ever made is getting this dude elected. My part of getting this dude elected was an ad campaign to get young people to get off their fucking ass and register to vote.

    Jr: Because you knew that they’d vote Obama, right?

    D: Totally. Our data said that 70 percent of the people aged 18 to 35 were going to vote for Obama. We had to make the idea of voting relevant to these people. We also knew that young people don’t believe that politics is a way of getting something done. Our insider challenge was to say, “If you show up and vote, it is a worthwhile way to accomplish the things that you already want of out life. The things that you want for the future.”

    They don’t feel that voting actually accomplishes dick squat. They feel it’s been proven that it doesn’t. So the challenge was to register as many of them as possible.

    Another problem we had was that the entire process is outdated nonsense. Every state has different laws. You need to buy a stamp, a postage stamp, to register to vote! You can’t do it online. It’s stupid. So we had to overcome all this shit. The bottom line was, ‘How do we make registering as relevant as possible and how do we register as many of them as possible?

    Well, the easiest way to do it is through a website. Anyone who’s young knows how to use the web. All they care about is ‘Give me a fucking URL and I’ll take care of it.’ That became Voteforchange.com. (Editors note: Which is no longer online, sorry kiddies.)

    Jr: And as little clicks as possible.

    D: Yes, exactly. I’m sure someone else on the Obama campaign thought of that name as well, but my partner Peter Cortez and I came up with the name and they liked it. A guy named Scott Thomas (http://simplescott NULL.com/) was the information architect of the site. He was also the design director for Obama For America (http://www NULL.barackobama NULL.com/). He’s the one that took the Sol Sender (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=etEP1Bhgui0) icon and cleaned up the type. He was responsible for most of the look of the Obama campaign. He’s the one that brought in Shepard Fairey (http://obeygiant NULL.com/).

    Jr: Sounds like he’s the bro to know. So voteforchange.com…

    D: Yeah, the tagline for the site was, “Everything you need to register and vote”. Most of the campaign was Peter and I working 18 hours a day in a room. It was a lot of BO, bad sushi, and favors from awesomely talented people. We sent out questionnaires from a Gmail address to everyone we knew. We didn’t tie it to the Obama campaign at all, a lot of the stuff we didn’t even tell our own bosses, because we knew if we told our bosses they would have to go get approval, and we didn’t have time for that, so we just did a lot of shit fly-by-night.

    So we set up this Gmail account and sent out these petitions to everybody we knew. We wanted to know, “Why is it worthwhile for you to vote? What are you going to get out of it? What do you expect to happen?” We got back hundreds of responses from all over the country. We got a lot of people from other countries, but we couldn’t use their stuff. We took all the interesting responses, broke them down into probably seven or eight categories of why you would vote. We built these buckets and filled them with responses that were good. Then we reached out to a lot of poster artists. We had two artists that were instrumental in getting everybody else. On the West Coast it was Brian Flynn of Hybrid Design (http://www NULL.hybrid-design NULL.com/). On the East Coast it was Tristan Eaton of Thunderdog Studios (http://www NULL.thunderdogstudios NULL.com/).

    posters

    Jr: So these guys do music posters and stuff?

    D: Yes. These are the guys who are big fucking dogs in their scene. Then it was all about our fantasy file. Who are all the designers you’ve always wanted to work with? We just emailed everyone, called everyone. And you know, it was just me and Peter in the office, the air conditioning shuts off at seven or eight, the funk kicks in, the smell of the old sushi boxes too, and you just go. You call all your East Coast peeps until it’s ten o’clock and it’s getting kind of late. Then you start calling West Coast peeps until about one. And you’re calling everybody and you’re briefing people constantly. We’d brief someone and say, ‘Health care: The issues are X, Y, and Z. Obama’s platform is 1, 2, and 3. Here’s three different headlines that should be able to work with the image you’re going to create. Show us your sketches.’

    posters2

    Jr: So was everything you got back good? Or did you have to refine some things?

    D: Almost everything was good. There were a few people that we couldn’t use, not very many, I think at the end 18 artists did about 22 or 23 pieces that were published. All the artists worked for free, nobody got paid.

    Jr: Nobody got paid?

    D: Not a penny.

    Jr: So how’d you do that?

    D: We tried to get honorariums but we told them upfront that they had to be willing to do this for the love and the glory. We had exactly one guy tell us no because of the money.

    Jr: Really?

    D: Yeah, then he called us back and said yes. The only people who said no were people who were just physically overbooked. If people were already yelling at them for work and they were overbooked.

    Jr: And then Obammy won!

    D: Then he won! Success. Best thing I ever did.

    (Editors note: If you wanna get something super cool, Scott Thomas has made a book filled with all the Obama design stuff, featuring Daniel’s posters and the voteforchange.com website. Buy it here (http://www NULL.kickstarter NULL.com/projects/simplescott/designing-obama).)

    Jr: So, OK, we’ve been drinking now for how long? Let’s jump into the nitty gritty shit and see what happens. What’s your advice for juniors?

    D: Well, if you’re a junior, all you’ve got to do is start working. Make good shit. Be a smart person. Be nice. And hopefully that’ll work out.

    Jr: I know this. And a lot of others know this. But for a lot of people it’s about getting that first ‘foot in the door’ or whatever.

    D: Have you played The Legend of Zelda? On Nintendo?

    Jr: Umm…

    D: You haven’t played fucking Zelda?

    Jr: I’ve had a fiddle.

    D: Ha. I should slap you.

    (Turns to the person sitting next to him.)

    D: Have you played the legend of Zelda?

    Random 1: A little while ago.

    Random 2: I have.

    D: Then I only need to slap one of you.

    Random 2: I remember the Nintendo cheat.

    D: Oh Yeah?

    Random 2 and D simultaneously: Up. Up. Down. Down. Left. Right. Left. Right. B. A. B. A. Select Start.

    D: Yes!

    Jr: Oh my god. You guys are total nerds. So what’s the importance of Zelda anyway?

    Random 2: Yeah what’s the significance?

    D: Well remember how in Zelda, when you wanted to get something accomplished, you had to go through these weird adventures that seemed like they had nothing to do with anything? If you wanted to beat some bad guy, you had to go find a leaf, give it to an old man, get a potion, take it to a lady, she’ll make you some arrows. Then you have to take the arrows to a dungeon, and shoot a guy with the arrows. Right?

    Random 2: Yeah!

    D: Well that’s what getting a job in advertising is like.

    Jr: Hahahaha. Woah.

    D: It’s exactly the same. Exactly the same! You’ve got to have teachers, they need to be smart, and they have to get you and like you. Then you’ve got to work fucking hard and you’ve got to be smart. If you don’t work hard and you’re not smart then you’re a piece of shit. But if you’re one of the smart hard working people, your teacher will recognize that and will introduce you to somebody. Then you start going on these little ‘go sees’, you know, while you’re trying to get a foot in the door. You meet these people and you say, “Hey, man, you work in advertising. I want to work in advertising. What do you think about X, Y, and Z? How does this work? You did blah blah blah, what was that like?” Cause you don’t know. I didn’t fucking know. I still don’t know most of this shit. So you ask all these questions and they answer you. And they feel smart for answering you. Once you’ve asked them enough questions and whatever, you say, “Is there anyone else I should talk to? Maybe at another agency?” And they say yes or no. Then you ask them if they can recommend some people. You know, say, “Do you know anybody at this place or that place?” And then they say, “Actually I do.” I did this in London. I got people to pick up their phone and make calls to people on their cell phone. Numbers you’ll never get. Once you meet that first smart connected person, and he or she likes you, they’ll make a couple of calls for you. Then you’ll meet a couple more people, and the next thing you know you’re meeting people, meeting people, meeting people. Then all of a sudden, somebody knows of a job. Or an internship. And if your work is good, and you’re a nice personable person, why not offer you a gig? Even if it’s an internship, which is how you prove to everybody in the building how smart and good you are.

    Jr: Wow. Yes. You make yourself invaluable.

    D: You have to be good though. You have to give a fuck, you have to work hard, and you need to be good. If you do that, then you’ll be fine, especially if you’re a social person.

    Jr: That really is very good advice. You are such a nerd though.

    D: Ha, yeah. But you know, when Zelda came out for Nintendo GameCube, while I was in school, everything else suffered.

    Jr: It always does with video games.

    D: My TV and my GameCube were going all hours of the day. It was either me or my roommate taking turns playing. So when one person was doing homework, going to school or taking a nap, the other person was playing.

    Jr: It happens to the best of us.

    D: It was good though. It was like a religious experience.

    Jr: How long did you do this for?

    D: I don’t know–too long. Then I became the student president. That was a bad idea. Don’t do that.

    Jr: Ha, OK. That’s good advice. Do not become student president.

    D: Do not become student president at Art Center, do not play video games, and do not have sex.

    Jr: Hold on. Do not have sex?

    D: Be chaste.

    Jr: What? What’s the theory? Why?

    D: You have bigger things to worry about than sex. Chastity is important…

    Jr: Why? I don’t understand.

    D: Because if you’re dealing with relationships, you’re not dealing with your work or your ideas, and your not dealing with your life. I do think there’s some connection between the creative and the procreative. That sex and creativity are linked. It’s the urge. There’s a common passion, a common energy. When you’re still developing one of them, you don’t want to drain it with the other one.

    Jr: Actually that sounds like a pretty interesting point. What about masturbation?

    D: It’s a good stress reliever.

    Jr: Yes. It’s not procreation either.

    D: It’s not procreation, there’s not another person there, and there’s no one else’s feelings to deal with. That’s the thing that sucks.

    Jr: Yeah, don’t deal with feelings. They get in the way.

    D: No, you should deal with feelings! You should be a sensitive person. But you should know that if you involve somebody else in that part of your life, especially if you’re a male and you’re dealing with a female, she’s going to have an opinion and feelings about your chosen activities. So your choice is to either be a dick, which is not good, or to deal with those, which is very time consuming.

    Jr: Yes that’s a hard bargain. Be a dick, or give up your career/creative time to deal with your shit. So don’t get involved?

    D: Don’t get involved. Work on your shit. Ride your bicycle. Don’t have sex. Work hard. Be nice. Pay attention. What else? That’s kinda it. Oh, and don’t buy dumb shit.

    (And as usual we spoke for way too long and Daniel had way too much good shit to say. So hang in there for Part 2. It’s got everything to do with not buying dumb shit, knowing which companies are helping the world, and how you can retain your soul. Coming soooooooon.)

    ADVERTISING, THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Also tagged ADVERTISING, COCKTAILS, COMMITMENT, CREATIVITY, DANIEL BREMMER, DRUNK, HIGH SCHOOL, HUNGER, INSPIRATION, NEW YORK, OBAMA, PETER CORTEZ, SCOTT THOMAS, SEX, SS+K, ZELDA

    Tag Archives: JOB HUNTING

    The Interview Series // 20

    THE SACK_2

    Ben Birchall and Shane Dawson had it all: A job at The Campaign Palace (http://thecampaignpalace NULL.com/) in Melbourne, money to buy food, and great haircuts. They evidently spent a lot of time on all of the above for they were model advertising citizens, making funny campaigns and acting like dags for money and fame. Until one fateful day, not too long ago, they were politely asked to ‘leave the agency’. Also known as getting ‘The Sack (http://thesack NULL.tumblr NULL.com/)‘. Instead of ‘losing their shit’, they decided to document their ‘sacking’, while trying to get their respective ‘sacks in the door’ somewhere bigger and better than before. The resulting video diary (http://thesack NULL.tumblr NULL.com/) is a great lesson in ‘getting your shit together and looking for a job’. Something every junior needs to learn. We were impressed and felt it was a great opportunity to talk about ‘gimmicky’ ideas, losing your job, getting a job, and working on your folio.

    Junior: At what stage in the job-losing process did ‘The Sack (http://thesack NULL.tumblr NULL.com/)‘ idea come about?

    The Sack Lads: Straight away really. We initially posted photos on Facebook and people really liked them, then we had the idea to film the process because it might be interesting to watch later. Blogging it daily led from there, and it meant that we had a deadline and the motivation to actually do it.

    Jr: Tell us a bit about how you got into the industry? Did you originally get your job at Campaign Palace in a similar way?

    TSL: Hell no. We got into the Palace the old-fashioned way – working for free for a few months. We were out of Award school and we got paired up to do a placement at the Palace. We were supposed to get paid for every bit of work we got up, but after two months it was cheaper to hire us.

    Jr: Emma Hill once told us, “If your idea is a bit gimmicky, you come across as a gimmicky creative. Rather than a genuine, intelligent one.” Obviously there are plenty of kids out there who’ll want to do something similar hoping to get a job. How do you suggest they straddle the line between gimmick and intelligent stunt?

    TSL: It just has to be good. If it’s good, it’s an interesting piece of work in itself and hopefully shows a potential CD that you’ve got something that the fifty other teams that have contacted them that week haven’t. And then you need the work to back it up. There’s no point getting in the door to see a CD if you don’t have a decent book.

    Jr: When a lot of people lose their jobs, they freak out and take any old job they can get. Is this you guys freaking out or are you looking to make a big jump in your career?

    TSL: It’s probably a bit of both. It was initially something to keep us busy, particularly in that first week when you go from working eleven hour days to sitting around the house. But the end result is that hopefully our next job will be better than our last job. That probably wouldn’t have been possible without The Sack.

    Jr: Google loves The Sack, you’ve got posts on Campaign Brief (http://www NULL.campaignbrief NULL.com/2009/09/ben-and-shane-get-the-sack NULL.html), Mumbrella (http://mumbrella NULL.com NULL.au/they-may-not-have-a-job-in-advertising-but-theres-always-pr-9986#more-9986) and over 2,000 hits on your first video on youtube (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=a9ARhSiTrKQ). That’s great and all, but what has the reaction been like offline and in the interview room?

    TSL: It’s been really positive. We’ve been able to see people who would never have seen us without The Sack. And they already know who we are, what we’re about and what our work is like. Which means that rather than going through your book, you can just have a chat about where you want to go and where the agency is headed. It’s a far more productive way to spend their time and yours.

    Jr: We’re big fans of how quickly you guys got your shit together. We have plenty of friends who are still ‘working on their folio’. What would you say is the 5 steps to getting a job in advertising?

    TSL: Here’s the list!

    1. Keep your book current. Things happen very quickly in advertising, so even if you feel safe and cosy, plan for The Sack.

    2. Show your book to people you respect. Even if they can’t give you a job. It’s good to practice presenting, and it’s good to get different perspectives on the work.

    3. Do a heap of different stuff. Don’t have a book that’s full of pale imitations of D&AD finalists from 1998. Dream up a product, create a brand, include some digital or viral stuff. You have to show you can do more than write a headline or lay out a strip ad.

    4. Work for free if you have to. It sucks, and there’s a line you have to draw before you start seeming sad, but the CD you’re trying to see probably did it, and their CD before them. It’s a grand old advertising tradition, like sexual harassment and cocaine.

    5. You have to pay for tip 5. We accept paypal and all major credit cards.

    Jr: And finally, losing your job sucks. What advice do you have for any kids who lose their job or have lost their job recently?

    TSL: Our old CD, Tony Leishman told us that you have to treat advertising like you work for yourself. Jobs will come and go. You can’t control that. What you can control is keeping your book sharp, doing cool stuff and staying busy and creative. And that doesn’t necessarily mean working on advertising briefs. Start a website, write a script, take some photos, design a font, dream up a product. Whatever it is you do, do it. Don’t stop because you’re not getting paid. In fact, do it more and do it harder.

    ADVERTISING, THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Also tagged ADVERTISING, COMMITMENT, FOLIO, HUNGER, RECESSION

    Tag Archives: JOB HUNTING

    The Monday Morning WHIP // 42

    WHIP42
    How lame is the internet? Yeah, totes lameski, we know. It makes us lazy. So lazy in fact that we don’t go to libraries anymore. Googler and Wikipediac are the modern resources of choice. To stand out these days, we gotta get old fashioned. So this week, Stan (http://branddna NULL.blogspot NULL.com) reminds us of the best old fashioned advice: Make phone calls.

    As a junior the best way to get your folio in front of potential employers is to ring up and make a time to go and see them.
    This isn’t always easy to do. In fact it can sometimes seem impossible. But take it from me, it is the only way to go.
    If they tell you a person is too busy to see you, and that you should leave your folio at reception, don’t. If they tell you to send an email with some PDFs of your work, don’t.
    A face to face meeting is the only way to go.
    Why?
    Because it allows you talk about your work and the thinking behind it. An email can’t do this.
    When you meet someone in person it enables them to get a feel for you and your personality. This is important, as it’s the person who gets the job, not their work.
    Finally, if you go into an agency you have an opportunity to ask questions. This is a great way to make an impression. And a good impression will always lead to bigger things.

    ADVERTISING, WHIP | Also tagged ADVERTISING, FOLIO, JOB INTERVIEW, JOBS, WHIP

    Tag Archives: JOB HUNTING

    The Interview Series // 18

    antkeogh

    It’s a big interview. Very big interview. Can’t believe how big this interview is. Get it? We are mimicking that Cannes Lion winning ad for Carlton Draught, The Big Ad (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=Mv5U0W8FDDk). Everyone knows it. But does everyone know who made it? We do! It’s Ant! Hello Ant! (http://www NULL.antkeogh NULL.com/) He’s made many more ads (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=C03k3YScMHc) since then, possibly some (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=0QsGcOnju-I) better (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=_RqrdRqAr1Q) ones (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=1xozDXxwvcw), but we’re the kind of dudes who like to hook in our readers with a popular reference to something well-known to get you all excited. Are you excited? You better be. We’ve used up our word-count trying to hype this interview. Wanna know some trivia? Ant was in Kenny (http://en NULL.wikipedia NULL.org/wiki/Kenny_(2006_film))! That crazy movie about the dude who cleans toilets. He also thought his folio was terrible when he started out. There’s more trivia than that, but we can’t fit…

    Junior: The information super highway told us that you were a talented illustrator as a child. Apparently everyone expected you to study fine art or become an illustrator. WTF? How did you end up in advertising?

    Ant: Yeah. I went to University (RMIT) wanting to be an illustrator. But even back then RMIT was pretty advertising-centric. The illustration side of things was a little rigid at the time so I think I lost a bit of interest in that. So at the final year show I had some ads on the wall and a judge said your headlines are funny, you should try advertising. Then I visited (designer) Mimmo Cozzilino (http://mimmocozzolino NULL.com NULL.au/) and I think he said a similar thing and sent me onto Bruce Baldwin at the Campaign Palace. But basically my folio was pretty terrible at that point, just an even mixture of ads, design and illustration because I’d barely even laid eyes on an award book and didn’t really know what was possible. Then I worked for a year designing a magazine while at the same time doing Copyschool. That’s where I really learnt a lot about ads and met some of the people I could go and bug to give me a job.

    Jr: And look at you now! Mr. Creative Director at Clemenger BBDO in Melbourne. How did you break into the industry. What was the first agency you worked at?

    A: At Copyschool I teamed up with another writer. We offered to do briefs on spec for Y&R and then they produced our stuff which went onto win an award or two. After the awards they ended up offering us a job but we’d already taken a job at a smaller agency. Arhh! We stuck with the small place.

    Jr: You stuck at the small place?! Eek. How’d you go getting through those first years in the industry? We all have a little trouble. What was your experience?

    A: Yeah the first year actually wasn’t as scary as you would expect because Copyschool (which, back then, ran for nine months) actually got us used to working under pressure. I guess the learning curve was about actually making the ads. And that tiny agency that employed us? A year later, they retrenched us and then went out of business. So hopefully that’s encouragement for anyone having a tough time. I was retrenched from my first job.

    Jr: Getting retrenched happens to the best of us! What advice do you have to kids just landing jobs and starting their creative careers so they won’t get fired like you did? (Editors note: Joke! Smiley face.)

    A: Heh. The best advice I heard was, “Get in somewhere and then make yourself invaluable.” You see it a lot in a business – there are certain people – it might be a traffic manager or a receptionist – you can tell the place would fall apart without. Those people usually get taken care of.

    Jr: You’ve had the opportunity to work on some amazing brands in your career – Carlton Draft (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=Mv5U0W8FDDk) springs to mind – it seems like everyone in this industry would kill for that kind of opportunity. How did you get to be in that position?

    A: Well yeah it took a long time before I got to work on that, like ten years or so. I used to work on some accounts and think this just so isn’t suited to me. It’s funny because people now say, “Oh you get to work on beer. Beer is easy and fun.” Well, you know, Grant (Rutherford) and I made that opportunity. Carlton Ads weren’t like that when we started working on the account. Until a few years ago, beer ads in Australia were very serious affairs. More like Winfield ads. Get on youtube and have a look. (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=kcoebOqFsTs) Most stuff I worked on wasn’t a great account beforehand. But I was lucky because I got to create a campaign from the ground up. By writing the “Made From Beer” idea we were able to create a space where we got to play in an area very close to our own sense of humour. That’s why I’ve stuck with it for so long. We also enjoyed doing Barry Dawson The Cougar (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=K7zZbTC6UCA).

    Jr: How do you stay inspired?

    A: Look at other people’s genius stuff. Not ads so much. Good ads are few and far between but occasionally I get really excited by something, like the Skittles ads (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=3yPaLq1EpQw) for example. When you first see them they kind of give you a giddy thrill.

    Jr: Ah yes, this is a good segway. So you’ve built your career in advertising as a copywriter – yet you’re also a talented and recognised artist. At what stage did you decide to switch to the other side and become a writer?

    A: Oh after a few years I started working on my own doing both writing and art. At that time I became interested in screenwriting. Also there weren’t many writers around and I felt it was a good way to be more in control of the idea. So next time I teamed up, it was with a Creative Director who was an Art Director (Darren Spiller at Mojo) so I became, by default, the writer. And from then on I was a “writer”. I went to Y&R then George Patts now to Clems. Except now I’m on my own again, back to doing both.

    Jr: You’ve had a successful career in advertising, won many awards, and worked with talents. How does this compare to the success you’ve had as an artist?

    A: Well I haven’t really had a great success in the art world yet although I would love to. But I certainly enjoy it. It’s pure and I tend to keep it away from my advertising. The trap in some respects is I had early success in advertising. And that tends to encourage you in that direction.

    Jr: Every creative has a side-project. What are yours? We know you’ve got ‘em. We stalked you on Google.

    A: Well I have my painting as I said (antkeogh.com (http://www NULL.antkeogh NULL.com/)) but I also have some feature screenplays on the go. I was in that film Kenny (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=I0vE4ygyv6g). I’ve made some short films. For a long time I was in bands and had a little bit of stuff on the radio.

    Jr: Yes! So many fingers and pies. That’s what Google told us. Do you find the creative processes similar?

    A: Well, in a sense I probably get to use many of those other skills making ads. Any film medium is especially like that – words pictures, sound. For example I’ve used my musical skills to make Carlton Draught’s “Big Ad (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=Mv5U0W8FDDk)”. The more knowledge you have the easier it will be. Computer skills are handy. I taught myself Flash and Dreamweaver although I’m a hack. To answer the question though, in advertising the creative process is highly conceptual and very tight. All about the “idea”. And people have to “get It”. In that respect, it’s great for teaching you how to think. What people call an idea in other disciplines often just wouldn’t cut it in an ad agency. I’ve heard a designer call something “a concept” which was actually just a typeface. With my own stuff I don’t try to be so conceptual and can be far more obscure.

    Jr: How important is it do you think to have something else outside advertising?

    A: It certainly is for me. If advertising is wearing me down, which it easily can because that particular creative process is often about rejection and is getting more and more bogged down with “process” such as research. It can take a long time to get something up. When that happens I can get creative fulfillment from other projects.

    Jr: Thanks Ant. We owe you beers.

    A: Cheers and good luck juniors.

    ADVERTISING, THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Also tagged ANT KEOGH, BIG AD, CARLTON DRAUGHT, FILM, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, WRITING

    Tag Archives: JOB HUNTING

    The Monday Morning WHIP // 31

    whip31

    Everyone knows you don’t make friends with science. But what many don’t know is that it can build your contacts. And make your ideas bigger. AND make you a better creative. It’s an age-old but relevant theory. Today, professor Stan (http://branddna NULL.blogspot NULL.com/) has his white coat on and what he’s got to say ain’t boron (http://en NULL.wikipedia NULL.org/wiki/Boron).

    Those of you who managed to stay awake during science classes at school are sure to be familiar with Newton’s Laws of Motion.
    My favourite is #3: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
    This law applies just as much to getting into the creative industries as it does to movement and science. Here’s how:

    Work on your folio – It will get better.
    Think big – You’ll have bigger ideas.
    Ask for advice – You’ll increase your knowledge.
    Seeks criticism – You’ll become a better creative.
    Show your work to other people – You’ll build a network of industry contacts.

    Somehow I don’t think old Isaac Newton had getting a job as a junior in mind when he developed his Laws of Motion.
    But I’m sure he’d agree that you should definitely be applying his 3rd Law to your job search.

    ADVERTISING, DESIGN, WHIP, WRITING | Also tagged ADVERTISING, COMMITMENT, CREATIVITY, DESIGN, FOLIO, HUNGER, INSPIRATION, NEWTON'S LAW OF MOTION, SCIENCE, TIPS, WHIP, WRITING

    Tag Archives: JOB HUNTING

    The Interview Series // 14 // PN7 Melbourne Special

    jancy

    In celebration and preparation for Portfolio Night 7 Melbourne (http://portfolionight NULL.com/7/archives/1901), we got in touch with two of its greatest supporters – Nancy Vonk and Janet Kestin of Ogilvy Toronto. Not only are they responsible for Dove’s ‘authentic virals’, Evolution (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=hibyAJOSW8U) and Onslaught (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=321Kb8pBu5s), but they write a column for juniors called ‘Ask Jancy (http://www NULL.ihaveanidea NULL.org/askjancy/)‘ on ihaveanidea.org (http://ihaveanidea NULL.org), and have used the best bits to pen a book aptly titled Pick Me (http://www NULL.ihaveanidea NULL.org/pickme/).

    Junior: Hello Nancy and Janet! Thanks for climbing aboard the Portfolio Night 7 Melbourne (http://portfolionight NULL.com/7/archives/1901) special! OK, so first up, what seems to be the greatest and most common failing of juniors who swing by your office?

    Janet & Nancy: A poorly edited portfolio would be at the top of the list. It’s really hard to be objective about your own work, so it pays to get people you trust and respect to help you weed out anything that isn’t measuring up to your best work. One so-so idea can drag down a bunch of great. Creative directors worry that the creative person they’d get is really the person who on an average day might deliver that kind of ‘only OK’ idea. Honestly this is true for people at every level — even quite senior people make this mistake. Good editing makes you look better and worth more. It really is the difference between getting the job or not.

    Jr: We know you’re big supporters of women in advertising, is there a particular piece of advice you like to give young women on their journey to creative success?

    J&N: Authenticity is highly valued in anyone. You don’t need to try to be someone you’re not. Be assertive. Ask for what you want and need to be happy; don’t expect it to just come to you — be cognisant, it’s not a meritocracy. You have to go after what you want in a creative partner, pay, accounts, etc. Be seen (many women let a more confident partner do most of the talking. Big mistake.). Network (women don’t make the time to do it and don’t particularly like to do it. Big mistake.) Find a mentor if they haven’t found you, male or female. Even “big names” are flattered to be asked and are often happy to share their learning. It’s an incredible help up the ladder. Choose the right life partner. Some men won’t be supportive of the creative woman’s long hours, or may actually resent her success. You can’t make it far without an equal partner. That’s really underscored if you have a child.

    Jr: You’ve released a book to rave reviews titled Pick Me (http://www NULL.ihaveanidea NULL.org/pickme/). We think it’s the most respectful book to juniors and their plight we’ve come across. What was your experience writing the book while juggling jobs and a personal life?

    J&N: It took a year and it was hard to juggle all the balls. Fair to say it put a strain on children, employer and Janet’s husband who helped us with his IT skills. It took every spare moment and considering we took on extra duties like the design it was pretty all-consuming. The really fun bit was enlisting 14 superstars to contribute, and we loved that interaction with them. But rounding up Mr. Droga, et al was like herding cats. It was well worth it and we said well we’re glad that experience is under our belts. Wrote a book, check! Never do that again. In November HarperCollins approached us to write another book, this time not about advertising. We couldn’t say no to that experience so there you go: never say never. How we’re going to fit it in is just a leap of faith. The research itself is pretty fascinating; we’re talking to senior women from many fields about how they’ve made it. It’s an education. One doctor we spoke to said a pig-headed boss refused to approve a deeply needed clinic for women in her hospital. Ultimately one night she literally threw out the gift shop with two other female doctors. Their boss showed up the next day to find them in front of the door with arms linked and Army helmets on. “What are you going to do about it?” A clinic was born. Yes we will find a way to get this book done.

    Jr: Your Ask Jancy (http://www NULL.ihaveanidea NULL.org/askjancy/) column for ihaveanidea.org (http://ihaveanidea NULL.org/) has obviously become quite a popular destination for juniors with burning questions. Is it possible to tell us what the most common question you get asked is and what the answer might be?

    J&N: “How do I get a job?” kind of sums it up. The answer is right on the cover — be the little red bag among the hundreds of black ones. Stand out. From getting through the gauntlet to see the CD, to how you help him/her remember you and how you follow through will make all the difference. We just brought in a summer intern who charmed us into a job with a song she wrote for us. We would have hired her just from that potentially fatal gimmick. She really pulled it off and in doing that showed she’s a great writer, a born performer (a huge asset when half the job is selling your ideas), an extrovert, gutsy, a risk taker, smart (she really did her homework about us for her lyrics), fun, and incredibly likeable. Yes she had a really strong portfolio but without question the lengths she went to to impress us made the choice a no-brainer. Intelligent kissing-up: it works. Note that this was the opposite of a common mistake: a generic “I really, really want to work for ______.” So many people don’t do their home work before coming in for the interview; they’re showing up with the same pitch for everyone. You get many more points for trying to convince that CD that your agency is THE place you want to work, and why. Of course it helps on the sincerity scale if you actually mean it, but given you will need to see a lot of places to land that elusive opening, well, work hard on faking it convincingly.

    Lastly, here are some pointers for all thinking of attending PN7:

    - Be prepared to talk about your work.
    - Remember it’s the ideas that matter most, you don’t need to run out and buy a fancy folio – heck a sweet PDF on your laptop might do the trick!
    - Quality not quantity.
    - Bring a pen.

    ADVERTISING, THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Also tagged FOLIO, IHAVEANIDEA.ORG, MELBOURNE, OGILVY, PORTFOLIO NIGHT 7, THE INTERVIEW SERIES

    Tag Archives: JOB HUNTING

    Dear Junior Series // 04

    steph

    For some, finding a job can be as difficult as drinking a pie through a straw. It smells good but no matter how hard you suck, you never quite get to taste the meaty broth. You suck and suck until a piece of corn gets stuck halfway and you have to get a new straw and try again. For others, job-hunting is as easy as eating a pie with your hands. The difference was that person number two knew that eating a pie with a straw is for retards who don’t know how to eat. Steph Loupelis had hardly finished uni and she was already gobbling down a big, juicy cherry pie with both hands, landing herself a job at MTV. Clearly this was someone who knew how to eat a pie/get a job. We asked her a couple of questions about landing a job at MTV, and not about eating pies.

    Junior: So you work at MTV? We’re pretty sure there’d be kids camping out to get a job like that. How did it come about?

    Steph: By chance actually! I was working at my mum’s restaurant and got chatting to a lady whose daughter worked at MTV in Melbourne (at the time there was only two people working at MTV Melbourne. So it was definitely a fateful soy latte!). I told her I was about to graduate from Professional Communication at RMIT, and had no idea what I was going to do with myself. I had majored in PR, but had been so busy working two jobs throughout uni to pay my rent, I had no time to do an internship or work placement - which apparently put me well behind other graduates (looking back I realize this is total BS).  She suggested I call her daughter to have a chat about career options for inspiration, which I did.

    When I called, I found out that they were actually looking for an entry level sales coordinator at MTV Melbourne and would I be interested in applying? Hell yes. Even though I had no “experience”, they were after someone with a solid degree, knowledge of the media industry, and a good personality fit for MTV.

    About three months after our initial conversation I was offered the position and the rest is history!

    Jr: Wow-ee! Definitely a fateful soy latte. So what does a normal day at the office involve for you?

    S: It’s crazy! After two years as a sales coordinator, I’ve recently become an account manager and look after some major media agencies in Victoria. This definitely keeps me busy until all hours. The day involves meetings with agencies and clients to discuss briefs, communication with our internal departments to ensure the best response on these briefs, the management and servicing of campaigns and then the post analysis. Then there’s the organization of events, entertainment, parties… The list goes on.

    At the risk of sounding like a total loser, it really is one of the coolest jobs in media! You work incredibly hard, but you get to play hard when you’re done.

    I’ve taken clients to the last three MTV Australia Awards (and of course their famous after parties) in Sydney, plus concerts, parties and countless super cool MTV events in both Sydney and Melbourne.

    Just last week I went up to Sydney on a Wednesday afternoon to take some clients to a taping of MTV’s local music show The Lair, and watched De La Soul perform in front of an intimate crowd of Jager-shotting celebs, partied into the wee hours and then was back at my desk in Melbourne at 9am… I love my job.

    Jr: We certainly would too if we was you. OK, so this line intrigues us, “I had no time to do internships/work placements etc which apparently put me well behind other graduates (looking back I realize this is total BS).” Why didn’t an internship or work placement put you behind in the job-hunting challenge?

    S: I guess what I meant here is that I loved studying public relations, but throughout uni was constantly being told that if I wanted a decent job in PR after graduating, I’d need to do internships/unpaid work placements to get a foot in the door. When you have real life bills to pay, this is not always an option! After leaving uni and entering the industry, I realised that a lot of the time it’s more about personality and work ethic, and the experience comes naturally through learning on the job.

    Jr: If you had any advice for graduates looking to get in anywhere, what do you suggest is the best way to go about it?

    S: I think it’s so so important to take a step back after graduating, and figure out your priorities after removing yourself from the whirlwind that is the final semester of final year! It can be such a stressful time, and there can be a lot of competition and pressure to deal with.

    My advice would be to have a think about brands/companies that mean something to you. Brands that somehow speak to you in a way that you appreciate and support. I always had in my head that I wanted to work somewhere cool like MTV, but had no idea they even had an office in Melbourne! A little google-ing can go a long way, and this is where a bit of research and brand knowledge will definitely help you in situations where you’re being considered for jobs. This way, if you bump into someone in the street or get chatting to someone at a café, you have the confidence and background knowledge to set yourself apart from everyone else. And you’d be surprised how often you’re asked about what brands embody “you” in job interviews. It’s a really good way for potential employers to gain valuable insight into both your personality, and what kind of industry/brand knowledge you have.

    Basically, be yourself and try not to get disheartened when your ‘career’ isn’t progressing as you had planned in your head. The most important thing is to be confident and passionate about who you are and what you do, and the rest will all just fall into place.

    DEAR JUNIOR, TELEVISION | Also tagged DEAR JUNIOR, MTV, PUBLIC RELATIONS, TELEVISION

    Tag Archives: JOB HUNTING

    The Monday Morning WHIP // 26

    whip26

    It’s no use calling yourself a creative if you don’t make things. We learned that lesson last week. But what to do? Where do you start? “I need briefs!” – Graduate student, 22.  “I need inspiration!” – Artsy Schmartzy Dude, 24.  Bah! You don’t need nuthin’. All you need is to start. If even that’s giving you grief, here’s some suggestions from our resident whip-cracker, Stan (http://branddna NULL.blogspot NULL.com/).

    You don’t need me to tell you that getting a full time creative job takes time. It can take months, even years. Yes years.

    But if making a living out of being creative is what you want to do, what you really want to do, then you will get a job. Eventually.

    So what can you do in the meantime to put your creativity to good use?

    Got an idea for a short film or a TV ad? Get some friends together, grab a video camera and post your work to YouTube. Believe me, it’s easier than you think.
    You could start a blog. But there are literally a billion blogs already, so if you start one use your creativity to put together something new, different and uniquely you.
    If you enjoy writing, set up a Twitter account. There’s no better way to sharpen your skills than by churning out pithy 140 character bon mots on a regular basis.
    Photographers should be regularly posting photos to photography sites. Just be sure to set up an email list and let people know whenever you post new work.

    Art directors and designers can get work by offering their services to local businesses. If a handful of shops in your area let you makeover their logo, or design a flyer for them, you’ll quickly fill a folio with real work.

    There are loads of ways to put your creative skills to work. And all of them will make you more employable. As long as you understand that getting a job takes time.

    ADVERTISING, ART, DESIGN, FILM, PHOTOGRAPHY, WHIP, WRITING | Also tagged ADVERTISING, CREATIVITY, DESIGN, INSPIRATION, PHOTOGRAPHY, WRITING, YOUTUBE

    Tag Archives: JOB HUNTING

    The Monday Morning WHIP // 25

    create1

    If you want to be a creative there’s only one thing to do – create. Make stuff every day. Someone once told us, “There is no right or wrong – only make.” This week Stan (http://branddna NULL.blogspot NULL.com/) does what he does best, reminding us why we’re here and what to do.

    So you wanna be a creative do you?
    OK then. Tell me what you’ve created this week?
    “Well….It’s a bit hard at the moment. Um….I work in a café a couple of afternoons a week, so it’s hard to find the time.”
    That, my young friends, is a snippet of a conversation I had this week with a wannabe copywriter who came to show me her folio.
    She had a pretty good book to be honest. But It hadn’t really changed since the last time she’d come to see me three months ago.
    Which is, to be totally blunt, not bloody good enough.
    If you want to be a creative, you must create. Not now and again. Not just on the weekend. You must create whenever and however you can.
    You should be constantly adding to your folio. If it stagnates, so too will your chances of getting a job.
    So if you’d rather come up with excuses than great ideas, do yourself (and me) a favour and go get a job in an accounting firm.

    ADVERTISING, ANIMATION, ARCHITECTURE, ART, DESIGN, FILM, PHOTOGRAPHY, WHIP, WRITING | Also tagged CREATIVITY, HUNGER, WHIP
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