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    Tag Archives: NEW YORK

    The Interview Series // 40

    Would you believe R/GA (http://rga NULL.com), digital agency of the decade, started in the late seventies as a production company? Founded by two brothers — they created the first integrated computer-assisted production process (oh Wikipedia, you make us sound so clever)! Translation: they revolutionised motion graphics and special effects. Heck! They did the opening titles for the original Superman (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=1qHDWdGPomw) and have Oscars on their wall. Flash-forward twenty-something years and they’ve shaken up the fundamentals of the digital agency — creating innovative digital solutions for clients, like the fandangled-ly cool Nike+ (http://nikerunning NULL.nike NULL.com/nikeos/p/nikeplus/en_AU/) utility.

    This baseball cap-clad Aussie expat is Associate Creative Director. Paul started his career in Sydney as Production Assistant, before becoming a suit, before working his way into copywriting – all at the one agency. Then he decided it was time to ditch traditional and go digital. And where better to do that than New York City! During our recent trip to NYC, our chat to Paul in R/GA’s sunny front yard opened our eyes to the future of advertising.

    Junior: Where did it all start for you? You’re a Sydney boy?

    Paul Dery: I was actually born in Melbourne. I moved to Sydney when I was about 15, and then I started at M&C Saatchi as a Production Assistant. From there I made the switch to account service. Which was an excellent learning experience. All creatives should probably have a stint there, even if it is just a week. To understand what it’s like on their side of the fence, but to also understand how to sell stuff. What the client needs to hear and what helps them buy an idea. I then did AWARD School and then obviously moved into the world of Copywriting. It was a great apprenticeship though, coming through Production and Account Service. I’m very grateful for it.

    Jr: Did you move over at M&C? Was that a challenge?

    P: I did, it was tricky. I remember the first fight I had with a suit, and the whole department was laughing, because they were like ‘welcome’ to being a creative.

    The transition was made easier as the beauty of creative work is that the proof is always in the pudding. The harder you work, and as long as your stuff keeps improving I think people quickly forget that you were the Production kid or the Account guy.

    Jr: How did you do it? Did you just hound the Creative Director?

    P: It’s a pretty simple rule – I think 9-5 you’re an account person, and 5-9 you’re a creative. I was really lucky. The Creative Director, Michael Andrews set me a task that every Monday he would give me a brief, and every Monday he would look at the work from the week before. We did that for six months. He said, ‘by then we’ll know. You’re either rubbish, or you’re good’. Don’t know if I was good, but six months later I had a book that was probably just good enough to get me my first job in the agency as a writer.

    Jr: So you stayed there for a little while?

    P: I was there for seven years in total. I did a stint for about a year in the Melbourne office too. It’s always had a history of doing good work. It was nice to have a bit of time at a smaller agency. Big and small agencies each have pros and cons and are very different places to work in, and they’re very different places to get work made. It’s good to understand both spectrums.

    Jr: What stage did you decide you wanted to get a gig in New York?

    P: A funny story actually, I won a green card in the green card lottery.

    Jr: No way!

    P: I saw a web banner promoting it. I think it’s the only banner I’ve ever clicked on. I then got an email from the US Government saying that I’d won, and I thought it was a Nigerian scam. Even as I was stepping off the plane into JFK I thought something would go wrong.

    Jr: What happened when you got to New York? How did you end up at RGA?

    P: R/GA is an amazing place. It’s 1000 people, for one, and it’s grown crazy fast. For me, it felt like the first place that could lead the transition the industry is going through. Advertising is changing every day, the beauty of R/GA is that you can write the future. Nobody fully understands what’s going to happen with advertising but we have a pretty good idea of how people are consuming and how they want to consume. That’s why I thought R/GA would be a great place to be. I came from a traditional background of writing TV and print ads. At this place, you’ve got to start again in terms of media. Creatively you still need the traditional idea grounded in a good truth, but if you’re not using the technology that’s being developed and on offer, then it’s totally unutilized.

    Writers in traditional agencies who are writing great ads could probably be much more effective if they worked with the technology a bit harder. That’s why I joined R/GA because I thought bugger it, I’ve got to understand how this works or I could be an old dinosaur at an early age. So I jumped on board and for ages I turned up to meetings and had no idea what these people were saying. I just kept nodding. I think my favorite phrase was ‘Yup I think I saw that on TED’. It was my only get out of jail card line I could use!

    Jr: How did you go about getting in if you came from such a traditional background?

    P: I got really lucky. R/GA, obviously from a pure digital background were starting to broaden their horizons. So they were looking for traditional ad guys I guess. A lot of their clients were asking for video content that required a lot of script writing. It was the middle of a horrible recession, the middle of a freezing cold winter. Ignorance was bliss — I walked in and got extremely lucky.

    Jr: You would have had some pretty good work under your belt coming from M&C though?

    P: It was ok. I hadn’t had that many years as a copywriter. It was prolific, I worked across a lot of brands and had a lot of stuff made. Now looking back, with the account service background, whether it should have been made is another question!

    Jr: Do you think that a creative would get more concepts made in Melbourne or Sydney than you would in New York?

    P: I’d say there’s more of a delay in coming up with an idea and implementing it. Here at R/GA you’ve got a broad range of clients like Nike, Walmart & Mastercard. We tend to implement a lot of business changing ideas, and that takes time. Whether it’s a new platform, or a new customer service stream using Twitter, whatever it is, to turn a big client around isn’t a fast process.

    Jr: That would be really cool, not just thinking in terms of ads, but also in terms of business.

    P: I think that’s the enjoyable part about thinking digitally. I’m used to getting a brief where media is bought, they want TV and print, and your brain is trained to execute. Here, the media is open ended. The client want to sell something, and you’ve got to come up with a solution. It could be anything. Is it an online scavenger hunt? A Twitter contest? A Facebook Connect Video? It’s whatever you think people can consume the idea best. That was the hardest thing for my brain to get around as a creative. It’s hard enough to start with that blank page to come up with a script. It’s super hard to come up with a blank media environment.

    Jr: They sound like pretty awesome briefs!

    P: They’re pretty open but the planners still manage to get a lot in! Advertising is definitely going through some kind of change, I don’t know if it’s a revolution or evolution but you’re given your freedom when working with a strategy.

    Jr: For those of us who are used to and have trained at traditional agencies, how does R/GA work in terms of skill sets?

    P: R/GA is quite unique in regards to the fact that everyone is on an equal playing field. It combines design, copywriting, ID (interaction design), and the tech guys. There’s a suite of people all under the umbrella of creatives. Everyone has a chance to pitch an idea. Normally as a copywriter you are used to having a firmer say on ideas. Where here a great idea might come from a techie nerd guy who had this thought, and sure it doesn’t have an umbrella campaign line, but it’s an awesome use of technology that you can latch onto with a campaign. In terms of skill sets, it’s a really interesting place. R/GA came from a production and design background. When it went into an advertising realm it built websites. I think that’s why design is a strong lead at R/GA and heavily relied upon.

    Jr: So you obviously don’t work in traditional two person teams anymore?

    P: I don’t. There are teams, but they aren’t as common. I don’t have a partner. I kind of enjoy the freedom to roam across different accounts. You could be working with a traditional art director one minute, and then an iPhone app developer who had a good idea. It’s cool. It seems to work.

    Jr: In terms of the junior kids back home in Melbourne putting their folios together, they might have scam ideas that have never run and they’re doing stuff for online/digital – is it the idea that is the most important and not to worry about the technology?

    P: Absolutely. My first advice is to get a website, which most people have these days. But idea is still king, it’s not how fancy your site is. In fact, some of the best sites are just straight blogs of peoples work.
    A digital book should always be like any book, idea centric. It can take us a year to implement a good idea online, so I don’t think people expect for your book to be 100% real. Hopefully the technological ideas you present can be made, but that’s less of a concern.

    Jr: Sometimes it feels in Oz that if you have an idea, especially in terms of the digital stuff that you see around, they’re all variations of things that have already been done. It’s never a breakthrough original use of technology

    P: I think we’re going to see the rise of the nerd in advertising. They have always been prevalent in good creativity. And they are the ones with the finger on the pulse of what’s new.

    Jr: They’ve got us by the balls.

    P: These guys eat and breathe new technology, and it’s so hard to keep on top of it unless you eat and breathe it too. I certainly try to do as much as I can, but these guys are a special breed. It’s great to find those guys and talk to them, because they’re the guys that are finding the new uses of technology. Something might just spark and you could end up with something that no one has ever seen before. And that’s the trick.

    Jr: Where do you find inspiration other than the techie guys? It must be easy just to get sucked into the internet, and disappear into it for hours.

    P: Part of the reason why I moved to New York is that it’s full of inspiration. It’s hard not to meet creative people who have other interests other than just advertising.

    Jr: You definitely look offline?

    P: I think so. I think that’s where the traditional background comes into play. You have other places to look for ideas, not just online. And often if you see it online it’s been done. Some guy beat you to it.

    Jr: What’s the work culture like? Is it different?

    P: It’s very different. We’re lucky; Australia has a great outlook on life as a people. We can always have a good laugh at ourselves. American work life is a bit stifled. Even in an ad agency in the USA there’s not the same shenanigans that you get up to back home. Which is probably a good thing, you probably get more work done!

    Jr: Do you work harder here than you do at home?

    P: What I found is that in America you have your role. And I think that because of the sheer number of people that if you’re good at your role, you stick to your role and you stay doing that. I think because of Australia’s size we’re all good at a lot of things. And that’s probably why Australians do pretty well when they go to America, we’ve had to wear a lot of hats. Although stereotypically not, we do have a great work ethic. Americans work hard, but I think Australians work efficiently hard. It’s a different culture, and I miss the days back home of mucking around having a good creative environment.

    Jr: It must be hard when you’ve got 350 or so creatives in your department.

    P: Yeah, but here at R/GA it’s a great environment to learn. It’s almost like a university campus, I find, because things change daily, and you’re always trying to learn from everyone around you. That’s where the atmosphere is different. It’s more of a learning environment as opposed to a working environment.

    Jr: Do you think your account service hat is helping you in NY to sell in digital ideas to a client that might not necessarily get it?

    P: I think a big difference between Australia and America is that the American client is very digitally savvy. They know what’s what. In terms of even just technically speaking, they know their stuff.

    Jr: So you’re not presenting to your mum?

    P: I wish! I’d get a lot more sold. She’s a big fan. Coming from account service I always said that I was a better seller than creative! It definitely helps. I used to see a lot of great creatives struggle to get their idea up, even if it was awesome, they just couldn’t make it buyable for the client. You’ve got to understand where your client is coming from. If you can help their career, they’ll inadvertently help yours. Selling is a huge part of it. Clients are consumers too. They need to be sold.

    Jr: What’s the deal in the US, do creatives present?

    P: It depends where you are, but yes, we still present to clients. At R/GA the producer will do the day to do client liaison. It was very foreign for me to see producers on the phone all day with clients, but that’s what happens. A thousand people strong and probably the best digital agency in the world, it’s hard to argue with the formula.

    Jr: if you had to write a dummies guide, a couple of tips to digital thinking, could you think of anything off the top of your head? Have you learnt from any of your mistakes?

    P: I wish I knew. I think the key thing would be that it has to be fun and entertaining. The beauty of digital is that it’s no longer broadcasting, it’s asking you to participate. So make it rewarding, or make it useful, or make it both.

    Nike+ is a great example. It’s an application that gives me data on my run. So all of a sudden I couldn’t go for a run without Nike. It gave runners something really useful, and we call these, utilities. Utilities end up being a fine line between advertising and product development.

    If you’re in a traditional agency, don’t fear – your skills are still more than ever needed. Everything still needs to be wrapped in a nice idea. A great bit of technology that isn’t will fail because no one will find it, thus use it.

    I think for anyone wanting to move to NY for a job — do your work would be my advice. Getting a full time job in NY, is a full time job.

    For eight hours a day I’d be making calls to six people who would give me six more people to see, and so on. It takes time. Do your research and give yourself enough time to have weeks where you get no leads. It took me six weeks, which I thought would be my absolute best-case scenario. I was lucky. But there were times during those six weeks where I doubted myself. One thing I will say that as Australians we often go to America and think, is my work good enough? Is it up to a global standard? And it absolutely is. The work we do back home is bloody great. And Australians do well in the states. My Chief Creative Officer, Nick Law (http://www NULL.rga NULL.com/about/featured/platforms-and-campaigns), is an Aussie boy from Newport, NSW. And he’s a rockstar over here. Best of all he’s still incredibly Aussie, which is great. If your work is great back home, you can guarantee that it’s great here. Make the most of getting stuff made. Not that it was overly easy in Australia, but make the most of it.

    ADVERTISING, THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Also tagged ADVERTISING, DIGITAL, PAUL DERY, R/GA

    Tag Archives: NEW YORK

    The Interview Series // 39

    Juniors, meet Sarah. We met her on a recent jaunt to New York City where she is the Executive Creative Director of JWT. If you were born circa 1985 like us, you missed out on probably the best years of working in advertising. But you might just remember seeing the ad that launched this Aussie expat’s career — Antz Pantz. 21 years on, with 10 of those years based in New York, we wanted to know how she made it through the eighties and nineties and got from Antz to the Big Apple, as well as the low down on working States-side.

    Junior: Ok! From the top. What’s your story? Where did you start out?

    Sarah Barclay: I started at JWT. I grew up in Sydney and went to the Sydney College of the Arts, which is now the Sydney University of Technology. I won one of ten scholarships for the Australian Federation of Advertising, and back then it was all about academic prowess rather than your book. There was this motley crew of ten of us, and we were placed at various agencies for 9 months — and I got placed at JWT Sydney. So I’ve actually come full circle ending up at JWT in New York. I was there for a couple of years and then went to Garland, Stewart and Roach, and then that merged with The Ball Partnership. Then Mara Marich (my copywriter) and I got offered a job at The Campaign Palace in Melbourne, so we moved there.

    Jr: Was that in The Campaign Palace hey-day?

    S: Oh yeah. Saatchi Sydney and the Palace were the top at that time. I was there for 5 years before going to Clem’s.

    Jr: The Campaign Palace… We’ve heard some crazy stories. But there was some great work coming out of the agency then. What was it there that made the work, and agency, so great?

    S: Ah, the eighties and early nineties. Good times. There was such a great, inspiring group of people there, and the agency had such a clear and passionate creative philosophy, which helped push and support us to keep doing out-of-the-box work. People like Scott Whybin, John Turnbull, James Woollett, Terry Durack (http://blogs NULL.smh NULL.com NULL.au/entertainment/tabletalk/terrydurack/) and Graeme Smith to name a few. Creatives didn’t have much client contact back then, we just concentrated on the work, and the account people had to sell or not come back. And there was such a sense of fun. I remember getting pretty bloody good at table tennis.

    Jr: What was a typical day like when the agency was at the top of its game?

    S: We would spend the morning concepting, go to lunch, come back and play some table tennis, pop in to Terry’s office and see which restaurant he was reviewing, then back to do some more work. Then we might ring Scott at Lynch’s or the Bot and present over the phone and then pop down later for a drink if he liked the idea. Heaven on every level.

    Jr: Tell us about Antz Pantz (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=GU59Vq-nxjg)! Was that your first TV ad?

    S: I think that was 1989 [at the Campaign Palace]. Candy Shoes (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=qdWUbRW-M1c) was actually my first ad. It was with Ian McKenzie who was a great DOP and it was his first director job, and we worked with this model that had to pull a folded up shoe out of her mouth. She pulled it out perfectly on the 32nd or 33rd take. The line was, Candy Shoes – put them on your feet not in your mouth. It was 15 seconds long, and the lead singer from the Models, Sean Kelly, was the voice over. It was this really cool, out-there ad.

    Jr: That’s a great start. Was Antz Pantz a hard thing to get off the ground at the time?

    S: They were the halcyon days. That was with Scott Whybin as Creative Director. I remember Mara and I were in our office and had layouts all over the floor. A boy team had done some jingle like “the girls in France have ants in their pants, the girls in Spain have ants on their brain…” which got rejected by the client. We had this script and had a picture on the floor of a girl with ants crawling over her crotch with an anteater and Scott sort of stumbled in after lunch and looked down at the mess on the floor and we told him the idea and he said that’s it, and just walked out.

    Jr: That’s amazing. You must be sick of people asking you about that campaign! We saw it recently on 20 to 1.

    S: It won a lot of awards. It’s up there with the 20 best Australian ads of all time.

    Jr: Did you feel at the time that that was your big break?

    S: Yeah, it really was quite ground breaking on many levels, and it really did get so much PR. It sold lots of product so it worked in market as well as in the award shows. And then they tested it 20 years later and girls still loved it so much, that they made a sequel.

    Jr: How soon after that did you move to New York?

    S: I’ve been in NY ten years. After my seven years at Clem’s doing Yellow Pages and the milk stuff with Tony Greenwood, we won a trip to NY for some of the Yellow Pages posters that we did. The Australian Outdoor Poster Award. We had a bit of a look around while we were here, as you do, and BBDO NY were really interested and brought us over.

    Jr: How did you find it when you first went to New York? What were the differences from coming from Australia?

    S: It’s a different world. It’s like it’s own little country. I’d always wanted to live and work somewhere else, I had traveled a lot but I was ready to try somewhere else. New York is the mother of all cities, and the center of the advertising world some would say. I’m British, so I wanted to try NY. I guess the size of the place, the energy and the budgets are extraordinary. It’s a completely different ball game from Australia. It’s a different sort of discipline.
    In Australia you are trained to be a bit scrappier because you don’t have the luxury of those budgets. I think that makes us strong, holistic thinkers that are always trying to find a cheap way to get the message across. You still have to do that in NY, but you do have more of the luxury of the big budgets to do that.

    Jr: Do you think the style of advertising is different in New York?

    S: Yeah, it’s much more conservative. It really is the mid-west that you need to measure everything against. Unless it’s more of a content online piece of work that has less of a mass audience, but anything that is in the bigger traditional veins it’s much more conservative. The USA is the country of litigation and political correctness. We have loads of instances where we present to a US client and they think it’s fantastic, but they could never run it. And then the UK and European client will take it instead. A few of my clients are global so that makes it a little bit more rewarding.

    Jr: So you’re an Art Director by trade, right?

    S: I went to Art College so I started as an Art Director. Funnily enough most of my partners have been art directors, so I do a bit of writing too. A bit of everything.

    Jr: Do you have a less rigid working style here in New York?

    S: Yeah, and one of my teams here at JWT are both Art Directors as well. It’s weird. They both dabble in a bit of writing. I think strong conceptual thinkers are important, and of course it’s great if you have some writing craft as well.

    Jr: That’s really interesting. There’s always been the whole question of whether you have to be a traditional team or not. It feels like it is frowned upon in Melbourne.

    S: Some of my teams are regimented into the Art Director/Copywriter role, and I like having that because if I’ve got something that I need written in a very comedic style, I want to be able to go to someone who has that ability to craft it out.

    Jr: How did you learn your craft?

    S: I looked at a lot of award annuals, design books, fashion mags, record covers (ah, remember them)… art stuff, type stuff, anything I could get my hands on really. At Clem’s there were people like Henry Winkler and Libby Austin and others that were around at the time who were fab at craft. In Australia it is much more of an intimate environment so you could bounce ideas off of other art directors, and more senior creatives. I worked with Lionel Hunt a few times and that was really cool. You just look to those people that you admired within your agency and then bugged them for advice. At the Palace back then we had everyone, which was great.

    Jr: Do you think it’s true though that Australia is behind the rest of the world?

    S: Not really. Look at what wins at Cannes. There are bucket loads of stuff in the promo, media and digital categories from Australian agencies. I think that the budgets are probably the difference. In the US a lot of my clients still do heavy television and print work, but they are also very aware that people are also using other forms of media to view things, and they want to be where they are. Because of the nature of how much money you have it feels like you have more money to spend in those areas. I always have felt that Australia and New Zealand have been really progressive in advertising, and certainly in the quality of it, and how they make things go further with limited amounts of funds. It’s the obvious thing to do a great piece of content that doesn’t need a huge amount of media weight and spend behind it to get a message across.

    Jr: Did you have a strategy when you were starting out for the agencies you wanted to work?

    S: I always knew that I’d love to work somewhere like The Campaign Palace or Saatchi & Saatchi Sydney, and luckily I was given the opportunity to work at the Palace Melbourne in it’s hey-day. You don’t want to get sucked up into some faceless giant. There’s plenty of time for that. I think when you’re young and you’ve got buckets of energy, you need to have a vision and stay true to that. Even if you do get swallowed up in something bigger until you get that opportunity, I think you’ve always got to have a little side book of stuff that you keep on working on. Bigger clients always look favourably when you’re being proactive which is a great way to sneak things through. That’s what happened with a lot of the work that we’ve done here. It’s being scrappy, inventive and proactive.

    Jr: We definitely don’t want to get sucked up into a faceless giant… so If you had your time over as a junior what would you look for in an agency? Would you look at the Creative Director?

    S: Absolutely. It’s the Chief Creative Officer over here in New York. I’d look at the brands that they have, the work that they do and the philosophy of the place. I think you get a feel by talking to people, the culture of the place – not all places suit all types. I just read about someone who I knew who was let go from an agency that everyone would love to work at. And he’s great, and the agency is great, but for some reason it just didn’t work.

    Jr: Do you think it’s very different over in New York for juniors starting out their career?

    S: I think because of the size of the industry, and the size of the agencies, you can get swallowed up and forgotten about. You need to make sure that you have some goals and not fall prey to the golden handcuffs if you can avoid it, and still keep true to doing great work for as long as you can. The money will come eventually if you get those awards and recognition under your belt.

    Jr: In terms of the way agencies work here it seems like there are a lot more roles that make things easier?

    S: We have print producers here that go on the shoots, and project managers. There are lots of people to help out-to make the process more streamlined. But there are still a lot of account service people here, and meetings can sometimes have 20 people in them. As a creative you have to keep focused that the end product is this piece of communication that everyone will see, and you all have to keep striving to make it the best it possibly can be. And sometimes people forget that and you need to remind yourself and your team of that. Always look to your Creative Director for that guidance, and that’s where your loyalty should be. Art Directors are slaves to the Mac, but it is also liberating. The thing I miss is the attention to typography and craft that we had back in the day. You need to find Art Directors who are brilliant at all craft these days, which is hard. We have a great Head Of Art here, Aaron Padin, who I worked with at Saatchi NYC, so he keeps everyone on their toes.

    Jr: Did you have any key mentors throughout your career?

    S: Oh yeah. Scott Whybin. He was so incredibly brilliant at spotting an idea even from a scribble. And he always pushed us and encouraged us to be better. And then at Clem’s David Blackley and Ant Shannon were really supportive and inspiring. In New York, I worked with the wonderful Tony Granger at Saatchi for 4 years. He definitely encouraged me to push the envelope and was so particular with crafting work. I hear his voice as I review work now. Ty Montague, who hired me here at JWT but has since left, is an amazingly smart and talented guy.

    Jr: Do people work like that in New York too?

    S: Not as much. Because of the nature and the size of the place it’s harder to get that sort of intimate working environment happening. We try and create something like that, but there are so many meetings, so many deadlines, so many jobs going on that it is easy to lose sight of just taking that moment, and giving yourself some time to really craft that piece of work. You have to remind yourself that if it’s not as good as it can be, you’ve only got yourself to blame.

    Jr: What are your clients that you are working on at the moment?

    S: I run Wilkinson Sword Schick. We do a lot of work for the US and also we do some of the smaller content/digital projects for Europe. Up until recently I had a lot of the Kimberly-Clark business. We had a great time doing the Kotex work — that really reframed how that sort of stuff is advertised here. The US are still in the era of twirling white skirts and horses galloping along the beach and using blue liquid, so that was excellent to stick the finger up at the hideous stuff that has been perpetrated here for years. We are also launching a global hair brand, but I can’t say any more about that just yet!

    Jr: If you had advice for young people from Australia wanting to hit up New York or London, do you have any thoughts of what they can do to try to get their feet in the door?

    S: Try and find an in somehow – whether it’s another Australian, or doing something proactive. Obviously the Australian Mafia works well. Hang out at 8 Mile Creek (http://maps NULL.google NULL.com NULL.au/maps/place?oe=utf-8&rls=org NULL.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=8+mile+creek+ny&fb=1&gl=au&hq=8+mile+creek&hnear=New+York,+NY,+USA&cid=11036833762921432919) and you’ll bump into someone who is working in advertising. There are quite a few of us sprinkled around the place and that’s always a great thing.

    Jr: A lot of people have different opinions on when to go.

    S: I’d say sooner, rather than later. I wish I’d done it earlier. That being said, it is a hard slog to get your foot in the door without a good solid base of stuff. Definitely try. I think world experience is just fantastic. And New York is an inspiring and motivating place on every level. When you walk out the door every day there is always something silly, bizarre or different happening. You’re constantly moved to experience stuff. I’ve been here ten years and feel like I’m still scratching the surface. You’re never bored. You’re always challenged.

    ADVERTISING, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, WRITING | Also tagged ANTZ PANTZ, JWT, SARAH BARCLAY, THE CAMPAIGN PALACE

    Tag Archives: NEW YORK

    The Interview Series // 30

    Scott Thomas, also known as Simple Scott (http://simplescott NULL.com/), was the Design Director who helped to get Barack Obama elected as American president in 2008. Scott is not your typical designer, that much is true, although the typical designer should certainly be more like Scott. He’s an incredibly articulate and clear thinker heavily influenced by architecture, modernism and the human experience. All of which make his work completely utilitarian in the best way possible; people seem to interact with the websites he creates and the communications he’s published in an astonishingly involved way. But aside from all that intellectual hoo-hah, Scott is a totally gracious bro from Chicago who knows his shit more than most. How to live life better, how to find meaning in your work, what to do when things aren’t working, how to have friends and still have a fulfilling career… At least all the stuff we were dying to know, cause, you know, if it’s good enough for Barry Obammy, it’s good enough for you.

    Junior: Scott, something’s been bugging me about this ‘successful career’ thing for a little while now… How do you have friends and still find time to indulge in the deep-thinking and hard-work a ‘successful career’ requires? Especially when you’re young.

    Scott Thomas: I think it’s important to understand time. Everyone is in a rush. Many people don’t spend time enjoying things and living in the present moment. With work, when there are those times that you can’t take it any longer, you have to step away from it. Go do something fun, go hang out with your friends.

    However, I also feel in those same instances where it’s important to walk away from your work, it’s important to walk away from everything else for a while and just work. That’s where true concentration comes from. Concentration is hard nowadays; it’s becoming more and more difficult. iPhones are constantly buzzing, emails always coming through, YouTube clips to check out, Facebook messages popping up all over the place–you don’t really want all that distraction. In order to be truly successful and do something well you have to shut off the outside world for a while.

    Jr: But how do you do that if your friends are persuasive people?

    S: They’re persuasive, but you don’t let them persuade you.

    Jr: So can I tell them to fuck off?

    S: No, you shut them off. You close everything. You turn off your phone. You go out on the weekend and tell them, “Guys, I’m not going to see you for a week because I have to get stuff done. I’m not going to be accessible by phone and email and I won’t really respond much so… c’est la vie.”

    Ideally, go someplace that doesn’t have internet. Then you can spend more time concentrating and working. It’s an ebb and flow. I’ve never really lived in NYC but I can imagine living here would be hard–I’m only here for a week or so once every couple of months and I don’t stop when I’m here, I’m constantly moving. I can see how NYC could be a distraction. But your network can grow vastly very quickly, especially if you can do something well.

    Jr: New York is a great place to come when you are young and be social. But it’s not such a great place when you want to sit down and focus and do some work, especially work that is going to get you somewhere other than work that is just going to pay the bills.

    S: Right. I think that’s the balancing act. For me I’ve always seen creatives struggle with it–”I’m going to go to New York to become famous!” No, you’re not, you’re going to go there and struggle paying for an apartment and struggle with your career. If you’re doing things well and you come here, and you already have some things established, then I think it’s the place to be. It’s just like everything else.

    Personally I have a season where I don’t do anything. I hibernate in the winter. I keep in very mild contact with my friends, but it’s good for me. I need to be secluded when I work.

    Jr: Have you always been like that?

    S: Yeah, I studied architecture in college. Luckily the architecture studio is a quiet place. Typically I wouldn’t work there during the day, but I’d go there at night from about 7pm-3am. I’d spend hours working at night, and that was so helpful because I had no distraction, and no outside influence. If I have people around me I want to hear what they have to say.

    Jr: Ah yes! I suppose that’s the difference between an office job and working freelance for yourself. At an office you have to deal with all the people around you and the politics that go with it. But when you’re freelancing, you get up in the morning, sit at your desk, and it’s just you. You have the decision whether you do work or not. There are no excuses.

    S: I think that’s one thing that it definitely does–it allows you to form your own mind. I think the disease of a corporate environment is that you get stuck doing whatever they demand you to do. You’re a task man. You’re a yes man. You’re stuck in a world of checking things off the list your superiors are telling you to do, rather than following your passion, your desire, and asking the questions you wanted to ask.

    Jr: Then again, you need mentors, and motivation, and a firm kick in the ass if you don’t have a sense of urgency in what you do.

    S: I think the trick is to have close friends that you work with that will give you that kick in the ass, that will push you, inspire you, and drive you. Doing something completely alone–there is no real way to get a good product in the end. In order to grow you need constant influence at a young age. Constantly adding fuel to the fire.

    Jr: So how did it happen for you? On the way here you were saying you studied architecture then dropped out?

    S: I didn’t drop out so much, I kind of switched. I transferred and went to Iowa State and found that graphic design interested me. I didn’t know why, but I felt that architecture was too engineering based, too structural and not artistic enough. I wondered if I needed the freedom that graphic design was going to offer me. It was a difficult challenge for me early on, and I found that I actually needed a math problem and some structure. That’s why the web made so much sense to me. I started building websites pretty early on, in 1998.

    Jr: Is that what you do now? Mostly web stuff?

    S: I’m very web focused. I did the Vote for Change website. I created the architecture concept and worked with the developers to do it.

    Jr: So you never did print?

    S: Of course I did. The thing that got me jobs was that I could open up Photoshop and I knew branding–I’m a very multi-faceted designer.

    Jr: Although it’s probably one of the most hirable skills at the moment–having web knowledge.

    S: It is, but even more so if you’re also a real designer. Not only can I make your website work, but I can make it look good.

    Jr: Where did you go after you finished college?

    S: I was really unsatisfied just doing graphic design and I didn’t really enjoy it. I wanted to explore, so I went to London for almost a year. I didn’t really have plans when I went, I ended up working in music distribution.

    Jr: Putting shit in envelopes and sending it to people?

    S: No, I designed CD covers, cases and packaging. Brand stuff. It was a good chance to allow me to explore. But I wouldn’t claim any of that work to be good stuff in my eyes. I was an intern so I was getting paid, you know, crap. I also worked at a pub. It was an experience that kind of altered my perspective on things. It was the first time I was in a different culture, and I realised that there was a big world out there. After that, I went back to Iowa where my family is from.

    Jr: Did you have anything to show for it?

    S: Not really, I mean, I had a new haircut and wore fancy clothes. I was on a completely different planet when I got back. The people in Iowa knew that. My mind was completely on another planet. I was only there for six months or so. It was hard. It was a culture shock. I had serious anxiety from not wanting to be there, you know, I went back to fucking Iowa. The coolest thing there is cornfields and hay-bales. I tried to work on small bullshit projects freelancing to save up some money so I could get out as soon as possible. The best thing about it was after that, I was never the same person. I become instantly clear as did my understanding of everything.

    Jr: What changes?

    S: I think it’s the reality that you can go anywhere and do whatever you want to do. You can say, “I can do it, this is my future, I’m going to do it,” and not blink.

    Jr: Yes. That stage where you realise you’re in complete control of the rest of your life.

    S: This brings up an interesting subject of lucid dreaming and many people’s fascination with being able to control their dreams. Why would you want to control your dreams when you have complete control of your life?

    Jr: Many people think they aren’t in control of their lives; that life is continually swirling in a vortex of other peoples shit. But they completely are in control–it’s just a matter of perspective.

    S: Totally. You get stuck by the system. You’ve got all these forces telling you that you have to do this and you have to get a job and you have to work in a cubicle and this is life. “This is life son, welcome.”

    Jr: Were your parents like that?

    S: No, I was lucky. They supported me. I think that they realised early on that I had my mind made up. I told them I was going to move to Oregon and go to school, and they looked at me like I was crazy.

    Jr: Why was it crazy?

    S: Because it was so far away from them.

    Jr: They didn’t have to financially support you at all?

    S: I think that was the problem, I was paying for a bit of it and was realising how much it was costing me.

    Jr: Most parents these days seem to be happier with whatever you do as long as they don’t have to pay for it. Which can be harder in some ways because you need that.

    S: That support?

    Jr: Yeah.

    S: Especially when you are beginning to realise the necessity of money. Try as hard as you want to fight it, at the end of the day, you need it.

    Jr: A lot of money when you’re a kid turns out to be nothing when you’re older.

    S: I try not to think about money as much as possible.

    Jr: London is more expensive than anywhere though. How did you cope there?

    S: Again, you don’t think about money.

    Jr: What about when you get into debt?

    S: Think about how you are going to pay it off.

    Jr: So what did you do when you moved from Iowa?

    S: I moved to Chicago. I met some friends who invited me to come live with them, so I did. It was right downtown and I loved it instantly. My roommates were great, they were creative, and it was nice to be around people who were constantly doing stuff. I worked for quite a few years in user-determined design at IA Collaborative (http://www NULL.iacollaborative NULL.com/), analyzing all sorts of things. Everything was very focused on user experience, mostly products. Not online.

    Jr: Solving human problems, rather than wondering where to stick the logo?

    S: Yes, absolutely. It wasn’t focused on stylizing. For me it was very focused on the sort of stuff that you look at and think, “Wow, that’s so simple, why didn’t I think of that?” Analyzing those things and how they work. Trying to innovate new solutions. It made me dive deep, it was very immersive, an all encompassing job.

    Jr: That’s the sort of education people need for solving problems.

    S: Oh absolutely, it taught me so much–I learned a lot about how to approach user experience design. Now that I consider myself a user experience designer, a lot of people say, “What the hell does that mean? What do you design?” I want to design the entire experience and not limit myself to one chunk, one part of it. I don’t want to just design the logo, I want to design the bottle, the product, the packaging, the experience of when you open that door at the convenience store–I want to control all those senses. I think that’s my architectural mind coming out as well as branding, communication, design–everything.

    Jr: Maybe that’s more design thinking than architecture?

    S: Not necessarily. I think great architects want to have the ability to design everything in their space. Everything makes a huge impact. I personally believe that architects want to control the entire experience.

    Jr: Is architecture the next step for you then?

    S: Yes, absolutely. For me it’s a personal thing, it’s where my mind is most of the time. When I go away I draw more buildings in spaces than anything else. I take notes on places; how the height of a stair affected me. I think that way. It’s natural. That’s why the internet and what is happening technologically is another area I’m successful in and I think that my brain works well in.

    In the same way that an architect connects spaces with one another, a web/interaction designer is connecting how our interactions connect with one another. As a web designer you’re not designing a poster. In fact, I’m not sure I could even design a poster anymore, I just don’t have that mind. A web designer is constantly creating a connections within a page, then from one page to the next. It’s far more of an experience and a way-finding device than anything else, so you have to be good at directing people to where they want to go.

    Jr: What do you think is the biggest failing of most online user experiences that you see? What are some good ideas for kids when they get an digital brief and they want to make it better?

    S: I think the biggest problem is being stuck in the creative conceptual realm. The web is not a place to explore conceptual artwork. It’s just not. Personality is not necessarily something you want to inject into a website. They’re utilitarian. They are there to supply you with the ability to find information, gather information, and then leave. There are obviously some sites where you can be more conceptual but the truly powerful sites in our web world today are utilitarian, like twitter and Facebook and YouTube.

    The reason they are popular is that people can use them. They can use them very effectively as a means to an end. I’m gathering all my friends here and I can upload a video and share it with all my friends, or I can find any book in the world. That’s what the web is today.

    I also think it’s important to stay away from projects that are just bad ideas. Sometimes I struggle with that when someone wants to pay you, but when you start knocking it out you see the site is never going to go anywhere because it’s a bad idea. That’s always hard. I bet the same occurs in architecture.

    Jr: Probably. Maybe the same occurs in everything.

    S: I’m not sure why I think architecture is the next general step for me, I think it’s also due to the fact that after the Obama campaign it’s really hard to take on a project that has that level of significance and importance. I’m really not sure if I want to take on that level of importance again or do something that big again.

    Jr: What was the importance? That it changed the direction of the United States?

    S: That and the design of the campaign. I don’t think that design has ever been done like that in politics. We focused more on trying to do things right, and quickly, and make things look good, and look right. Rather than just making things.

    Jr: What was the difference on the Obama campaign? Why was that so different?

    S: Because of the way the organisation was structured. We didn’t have a top-down organisation, we had a bottom-down organisation. Lets take choices of typography for example. If we started to use Gotham, it wasn’t like we had to go and speak to our bosses who had to then ask Barack. Obviously Barack Obama has no thoughts on typography. I go home and have wet dreams on typography so clearly they are going to trust me on that decision; they’re too busy to think about it anyway. So if I was to write a report on why I wanted to switch from Gill Sans to Gotham, it probably would never have gotten read and it also would have been a waste of time.

    Jr: Is that what usually happens?

    S: I feel like in most corporations you have to justify all of your reasons and ask the person above you so you don’t get fired. There’s all those systems in place. I hate the word ‘systems’, because it also means boxes, and coffins.

    Jr: So basically they just trusted you to do the right thing, and it was pure luck that you were incredibly good, otherwise it might not have been such a success.

    S: Ha, yes, I guess you’re right. Although I’m sure they wouldn’t call it luck. You know, I think it’s important to understand what the power of design is. The power of design is not saying a single thing but communicating a whole lot. If you’re a writer the best sentence you could write is probably the one with the fewest words possible. If it communicates everything you want to say in the smallest number of words possible that’s what you’re reaching for.

    Jr: Simple is better.

    S: I call myself Simple Scott, so of course I agree with that.

    Jr: How simple can we get? How do you choose between using a typeface? Something as simple as that?

    S: We can’t go into something that specific straight away. We need to talk about what simplicity is. The important thing to understand about simplicity is you need to dive deep into the complexity of the situation.

    It takes one person to think about all the complexities in order for true simplicity to be derived. That seems crazy right? You have to dive to the edge of oblivion before you know what’s going on. I think that’s true. I think that you have to do the largest amount of analysis before you can make the most simple and elegant solution.

    Jr: So you’re saying before you worked on the Obama campaign you knew everything about him and his policies and everything he was trying to achieve.

    S: During. It was a constant process of learning. You’re not going to be able to know everything about everything. But you need to know a little bit about what the problem is. Like the voting process. The notion is that voting registration in the USA is a complex process. You need to think about what the problems you’re trying to solve are. Then once you know and understand that, you try to make the most elegant solution, then walk people through the process.

    Simplicity is a difficult thing to wrap ones mind around. The only things that are simple are the things that are truly empty (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=PG4uRmTJUU8), that are truly void. The second you start adding a second variable it becomes complex. The design of a spoon is really complex when you boil it down. Something as simple as a spoon requires a lot of knowledge and understanding about human needs and the way we do things.

    I think the beauty of simplicity, the reason I call myself Simple Scott, the reason I chose to make that my life’s work, is because I think it’s something that I can be constantly challenged by for the rest of my life. I can spend the rest of my life making things simpler and never get bored. I think everyone should find something like that. You think about some of the greatest minds in existence, like Albert Einstein, who was trying to take two theories and bring them into one basic idea, one unified theory. He never really reached it, but I don’t think he was ever really bored.

    Jr: That’s right. Being constantly challenged. Which is a problem for many people who get a job somewhere and end up working 9-5 for ten years and not being that happy.

    S: It happens all the time. People getting bored as hell or living out somebody else’s dream.

    Jr: For many young people, especially those reading this interview, thirty seems like the roof in career terms. From your experience, can you offer any advice on how you put yourself in the perfect position so you can continue to grow and challenge yourself?

    S: I have two plants in my house. One is a spider plant, and the other is something I can’t remember the name of. The interesting thing about the second plant is I bought it the week that I started at the campaign. It was a real little guy with four leaves. I bought it because I wanted to watch it grow. I knew that by working on the campaign, I was going to grow too–the plant was a representation of my personal growth. A plant doesn’t grow in a set path. It grows based on where the sun is, how much rain it gets, how much water it receives, how much attention it is having. All these elements play into the plant’s growth. It applies the same to us. If you take this as an analogy for the question, you don’t know which way your leaves are going to grow until they grow that way. It’s important to respect that, appreciate that, and to not look too far ahead into things.

    Often times we want to have the answer to where we’re bound to go, but the truth is, we’re just here. If you spend your entire life living in the future you’re never going to enjoy the present and you’re never going to enjoy now. Then when all of a sudden you don’t have anything in the future to look towards, you don’t know how to appreciate the present. You become a sad old man. So I would suggest that everyone lives like a plant.

    Jr: Sometimes things just happen, much like when you switched from architecture to design–you just know it’s the right thing to do at the time. And now with architecture, you’re about to begin on that journey, but who knows what strange and interesting places it will take you.

    S: I might go back and teach for the rest of my life.

    Jr: That could be the calling. I guess you need to leave it open for that.

    S: Everyone needs that understanding and appreciation. I have a hard time with the notion of committing to anything at the present moment, and I think it’s because I’m really enjoying now. In the past I spent so much time living in the future that I started to forget why I was excited about life.

    Jr: Well it sounds like you’re in a pretty great spot existentially now anyway. But how do you get there? How did you get there?

    S: Time. Flow. I just got back from Japan. I was in Japan for two months. One of the things that I learned and really appreciated, and I learned a lot there, was this notion of master. Sensei. The notion of apprentice vs master. The difference between doing things as young people and old people. Sometimes we lose sight of that. We don’t want to listen to our elders or someone who has been in it for a while. Obviously it’s a double-edged sword, but our masters here are jaded by the fact that no one will listen to them. In Japan though, they are respected, welcomed and embraced. They’re able to flourish with it as well. I like that dichotomy there, the notion that the master is getting something from the youth that he teaches and the people that he teaches are getting the lessons of a lifetime. It’s a very structural society. They deal in hierarchy all the time. At a meeting everyone puts their business cards on a table and they’re ordered by who is more superior. It’s very structured.

    Jr: So would you say structure is a good thing?

    S: I don’t think Japanese people would consider it a good thing. I just think it’s interesting. I don’t think it happens here in the States. I think there’s a constant wanting to trump and to be better than.

    Jr: It’s a good reason to get out, see different cultures and do different things, because for others something else works.

    S: Yeah totally. I’ve never been in a society that was that much of a utopia. You could set your laptop on the table and walk away, and it would still be there. There’s no crime. There’s such a regard for the other person that that just doesn’t happen. Even in a place that is so dense. We’re talking about half of the people in the USA condensed into the size of California. But because Japan is so mountainous they only use 20% of their country. The rest is basically uninhabitable. Isn’t that crazy?

    Jr: It certainly is. And you went there on sabbatical, which is another interesting topic. Your mentors told to go or your head might explode.

    S: Yeah, people were telling me my head might pop off. Obviously after you do something really large like the Obama campaign, you know, take on a really big project and you accomplish it, after you cross that thing off the list, which for me a was an item that said, ‘win this fucking thing’, once that was checked I had no idea what to do next. I knew I didn’t want to go to Washington DC. I was offered a job at the Whitehouse, but I knew I wasn’t the right guy, though I would love to help the democracy further. I don’t think that it was the right time for me to help my country in that way.

    Jr: Who came up with the idea for Japan?

    S: I did, it was always a place I had wanted to explore. I wanted to go someplace where I wouldn’t be able to read anything, I wouldn’t see any typography that I understood, I wouldn’t be able to read any adverts. Everything ended up looking cute and kind of silly because I couldn’t read it, and that’s what I wanted. I wanted an escape from all of that, and I found it there. I found a great peace in Japan, even in a city as busy as Tokyo, which is very peaceful in areas, and there’s a great connection to nature even within the city. And there was stuff everywhere! All these interactions make up your experience, having more experiences increases the amount of knowledge that you have and possess, and the more you can potentially experience, the more that you can potentially know. I think it’s true for anybody.

    If you have any passion to know yourself better than you knew it before, go someplace that is completely and utterly foreign to you. Go with no one else, go by yourself, go with no plans, and no conceptions about what it is going to be.

    If you want a more in-depth look into how Scott engineered the Obama campaign, watch this speech he gave (http://vimeo NULL.com/9145266) at the Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago.

    DESIGN, THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Also tagged DESIGN, INSPIRATION, OVERSEAS, SUCCESS, THE INTERVIEW SERIES

    Tag Archives: NEW YORK

    The Interview Series // 27

    Mike Sacks (http://www NULL.mikesacks NULL.com/) is a comedy writer who has done a good thing. After spending years writing words (both funny and serious) for Vanity Fair, Esquire, The New Yorker, McSweeney’s, and Vice, among others, he interviewed twenty-six comedy writing greats and packaged the result into a book–a terrific book of incredible genius, may we add. And Here’s the Kicker (http://www NULL.andheresthekicker NULL.com/) is full of only the best advice interviews can give. Those interviewed include Al Jaffee from Mad Magazine, Todd Hanson from The Onion, George Meyer from The Simpsons, and many others, who, if you would like, are available for you to peruse here (http://www NULL.andheresthekicker NULL.com/). We at Junior thought it might be interesting to see if any of this advice had rubbed off on Mike, which it clearly had, and the resulting interview quickly became a favourite in our office. We don’t even need to mention that the advice is pertinent for any creative industry. Except architecture. There’s nothing here for you*.

    Jr: And Here’s the Kicker (http://www NULL.andheresthekicker NULL.com/) was such a great read! Every interview we read became a new favourite. Many of the guys you interviewed must have been your idols growing up. What was the interview process like? Fun? A party? Time consuming?

    Mike: Yeah, it was fun, but it was also a lot of work. The finished product might have sounded like a casual conversation between two friends, but a tremendous amount of preparation went into each interview – up to 25 hours per conversation. There was also some pressure from my standpoint to make the interviews really work, because I knew that I often wouldn’t have a second chance with a lot of these writers.

    With that said, the whole experience was great, but I’d never want to do it again. It took two years. It’s time to concentrate on something else: my next book will be a humor book. It’s a parody of a sex manual called Our Bodies, Our Junk.

    Jr: Ha! Sounds hilarious already. One of our favourite quotes from your current book was from John Hodgman (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=8W51H1croBw) (Editors note: The PC!), who said that comedy writers shouldn’t worry about being funny. They should just concentrate on being the best writer they can be. And that the comedy will come from the truth. Do you have any similar bits of advice that have helped you in your career?

    M:     I think that’s a great piece of advice, too. When you look at the writers in the book, all of them can write in any genre, not just humor. David Sedaris (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=YBdymtyXt8Y) is a brilliant writer of anything, not just humor. You have to learn the chops of how to write before you even attempt to be funny.

    As far as my own advice, I would say the following:

    Network and surround yourself with as many talented people as possible. Don’t look at it as being a competition. It’s hard enough to make it alone, and it’ll only help to go through the process with others. More opportunities will open for you.

    Write every day. Or try to.

    I would be wary of classes. They’re usually taught by academics or by writers who haven’t been too successful themselves. I think you’re going to have to teach yourself in the end, anyway.

    Read as much as possible, both the good and the bad. Sometimes it’s more important to know what not to write.

    Don’t limit yourself to reading humour. Read non-fiction, on all sorts of topics.

    Experience as much as possible.

    If you do receive advice from someone, don’t be upset. Then again, it could be bad advice. Show your work to someone whose comedic sensibility you trust.

    Jr: Gosh Mike! Such good succinct advice. You’ve almost answered all our questions in one hit! But we’ll keep going, because, well, we can. So what’s the best training in your view for a writer? Is it on the job? Trying to get your scripts up at an ad agency? Pitching to a magazine? Starting your own publication/site?

    M: I think it depends on what type of writing you want to do. But no matter the medium, it’s very important to just do it. Write as much as possible, write what you want to write (and not what you think will interest those in Hollywood), and just keep on improving. You have to assume that no one’s going to really help you succeed. It’s up to you: not only to write, but to promote yourself and your work.

    Jr: Creative types often seem to have a lot of talents. In our experience they sit on the generalist side of things more often than say, the guy who always knew he wanted to be an accountant. Do you ever get the urge to try your hand at anything else other than funny words on paper? Your IKEA gag in Esquire (http://www NULL.mikesacks NULL.com/wp/ikea-instructions/) for instance, isn’t so much a gag about the written word. A comic maybe? A hint at a directing career perhaps?

    M: I wish I could draw and I wish I could direct, but I’m happy just trying to improve myself as a writer. But I do like to think of different type of ideas, such as the IKEA piece. In such a case, I try to work with really talented people who can pull off the visual look of a piece. I think that’s really important: work with the best people you can find. They’ll make you look really good in return.

    Jr: What are your thoughts on the web as a creative medium? Web comics for instance seem to be full of some burgeoning, surrealist talent, like The Perry Bible Fellowship (http://pbfcomics NULL.com/?comic=random). Do you think the web will produce new ways of making people laugh beyond putting clips on laptops?

    M: Oh, definitely. And I think it’s fantastic that anyone now can produce something creative without leaving their bedroom. In years past, one had to have access to an expensive camera or computer program or recording equipment, etc. Now, if you’re talented, you can easily find the way to create (and also distribute) your work. Which should give you less of an excuse to not work really hard. Anyone can do it now! Not just the sons and daughters of the Hollywood rich.

    Jr: A common theme amongst creative types seems to be how hard-working they are. But then we also hear things like, ‘if you don’t have fun writing it, no one will have fun reading it’. How do you resolve the two in your mind?

    M: Good question. I can only say that sometimes the process is rewarding, whereas not every moment is really that fun. I don’t think that a writer has to be screaming with laughter in order to produce a work that will be thought of as funny. In fact, it’s just the opposite. It’s similar to producing a piece of jewelery or creating a wood table in your woodworking shop. You know what you have to do and then you do it.

    I think what most writers are talking about are the instances of it being tortuous. The reader will usually notice because the piece might be clunky or a little stiff. Some of the best writing usually happens very easily, but that’s not to say that it’s going to be easy every time. Everyone has a difficult time at one point or another, even those who have been in it for sixty years, such as Larry Gelbart (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=5MivXSpxkYY) or Irv Brecher (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=B1NeihzlBHo).

    Jr: Larry and Irv are kings! Everyone should take advice from them. But the modern day game has changed! Things seem to be in a flux. We’re in a world where content creation is becoming more and more of a hazardous way to make money. Much of the print media like The New York Times and so many other newspapers and magazines are struggling. For folks whose livelihood depends on a vehicle, say a magazine column to flourish, what is the way forward? Do you think good writing will find new ways to thrive in the cracks or do you envision a world where cheaper and easier content like reality TV is all we have left?

    M: I think there’s always going to be a need for quality work. The problem might exist more for the reader. There are just so many options now (millions of internet blogs and sites, hundred of cable channels, etc.) Where will one go? A reader might hit 30 places each day, as opposed to just one or two. I do think that the major newspapers and magazines are in trouble… Unless they drastically change their ways. I never understood why newspapers and magazines gave away content for free. It doesn’t make sense to me. If they want to retain quality writers, they’re going to have to charge for their services. And I don’t think readers will have much of a problem paying a nominal fee for a yearly on-line subscription to The NY Times or The New Yorker or any other great publication.

    Jr: How much does geography matter when trying to make it as a writer?

    M: I think networking is very important. If you want to write TV for Hollywood, it’s vital to know a lot of Hollywood people. If you want to write late-night TV in New York, you should be in New York. Once you’re established, I think it matters less, especially if you write books and articles and so forth. But if you’re just starting out, I would definitely recommend surrounding yourself with like-minded people. It can only help your career in the future. And it’s more healthy to go through the process and struggle together. Not to mention more fun.

    Jr: So many comedy writers are from Ivy League schools (http://en NULL.wikipedia NULL.org/wiki/Category:Harvard_Lampoon_members). Especially out of Harvard Lampoon fame (http://harvardlampoon NULL.com/). Why? Is it all about the connections?

    M: I think a lot of Ivy Leaguers are obviously very intelligent, but I do think a lot of it has to do with connections. There almost seems to be a gateway from Harvard to Hollywood. I think it’s more difficult if you happen to come from a non-Ivy school, such as myself. I knew no one who was a writer, and actually, I didn’t know anyone who knew anyone who was a writer. The more connections you have, the easier it’s going to be. But it can be done if you work really hard and have some semblance of talent.

    Jr: If you had a son or daughter who wanted to get into writing, what would you say to them?

    M: Well, I have a daughter, and I’d love for her to get into writing, but not necessarily as a career. With that said, all careers are difficult in their own ways. And writing is a hell of a lot more fun than most jobs I’ve had, or could have had. I think it’s important to just know what you’re in for, though. Which is why I’m going to force my daughter to read my book, after she pays full purchase price, of course.

    Jr: What’s the funniest thing in the world?

    M: Anyone or anything who isn’t aware of their funniness, such as a dog, a monkey or a drunk person. The more aware you are of your cleverness or potential to amuse, the less clever and amusing you’re going to be.

    Jr: What are you waiting for young comedy writers? Buy the book! (http://www NULL.amazon NULL.com/Heres-Kicker-Conversations-Writers-Industry/dp/1582975051/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225450095&sr=8-4)

    Interview by: Pete Majarich (http://petermajarich NULL.com NULL.au/)

    *Ha! Joke’s on you architects! It IS relevent. Read and weep.

    THE INTERVIEW SERIES, WRITING | Also tagged COMEDY, COMEDY WRITING, FUNNY, HARVARD LAMPOON, HILARIOUS, HOLLYWOOD, INTERVIEWS, IVY LEAGUE, NETWORKING, OVERSEAS, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, WRITING

    Tag Archives: NEW YORK

    The Interview Series // 25

    leopremutico

    Man or machine? Leo’s glowing global reputation as a ‘wunderkind’ will have you believe the latter. It was our supposition that surely he must be human — mortal and unfunny in real life — just like you or I. We ventured to New York City in order to find out, and the story goes thus: Three short years ago, Leo and his creative partner, Jan Jacobs, were anointed Saatchi & Saatchi New York’s joint Executive Creative Directors. At the time Leo was just 28. They left after one highly awarded year, joined forces again to set-up their own NYC-based agency, Johannes (http://www NULL.johannesleonardo NULL.com/) Leonardo (http://www NULL.johannesleonardo NULL.com/), and have been working harder than you in the two years since. Leo and Jan have created some of the naughties’ most awarded, hilarious, insightful, haunting, and incredibly succinct advertising you’ve likely seen or heard in London and the U.S — ads like this (http://adland NULL.tv/commercials/nspcc-ventriloquist-2003-060-uk), this (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=YMkkQO5HUXM), this (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=X2cs8gnb42A) and this (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=k6z3bGILwMg) — winning many lions and other assorted animal like statues. The jury is still out on Leo’s genetic make-up, for at the interview, Leo spewed mythical reams of advice from his lion-like mouth, then galloped off into the sunset laughing like a hyena. The Junior team turned to one-another, wide-eyed and mystified, mouths gaping like hungry, hungry hippos, gasping for air. Are we making this up? Yes. Without further ado — Leo, Leo, bo-bio. Banana-fanna-fo-fio. Mee-my-mio. Leeeee-o.

    Junior: Hey Leo! Sorry about that ridiculous intro — our intern wrote it. He’s nuts. So first we wanna know, how did you get into the ad game? What was your journey from raw junior to respected senior?

    Leo: It’s a little odd… I was coming out of an operation; my appendix had burst hours before I was due to board a plane to Germany for professional football trials. I woke up from the anesthetic with an advertising idea and my decision was made. I stuck to advertising. Which was a good thing because I wouldn’t have stood a chance at the whole football thing.

    A couple of years before that I had been selected as one of the AFA trainees out of university. It probably helped to have an understanding of how the entire process worked from media, to strategy to account management. But it was most useful in making me absolutely desperate and determined to work in the creative department because I quickly realized I didn’t want to do any of those other things for a living.

    Jr: We’re dying to know if have any stories from your time as a junior when life sucked? Any horror book crits or moments of creative block that made you reassess life and what you were doing?

    L: Sure I did, I think everyone does. Don’t be intimidated by thinking creating great work comes completely naturally to some people. Truth is, anyone who is any good has spent hours and hours perfecting their craft and if they tell you otherwise they’re full of it.

    And the same goes for ‘creative block’. I don’t want to sit here and say I never have it, of course I do. I think the trick is to try and not see it as ‘creative block’. See it as something that happens to everyone, something you just need to work through or come at from a different angle.

    Jr: Wow. Yes. You have no idea how relieving that is to hear from you. You know what else is intimidating? Awards. Obviously you’ve won a lot. Everyone has their own take on what they mean and what they should mean. 99% would agree they mean nothing when compared to ‘creativity’ or ‘effectiveness’ or ‘selling lots of shit and making your client happy’. How important have they been to you and how should we as juniors approach the current award industry?

    L: I remember being about 25, at Cannes for the fist time and winning 4 or so Cannes Lions. I realized pretty much right then and there that awards weren’t going to keep me excited about getting out of bed each morning.

    At the end of the day the most important thing for any junior to do is understand what sort of creative person they want to be. Then to strike that balance of getting enough respect and trust to actually one day be able to create that path for yourself.

    Personally, I believe award shows matter less now than they once did. Partly because there’s so many of them, and partly because everyone has a gazillion of them, including students, but more importantly because why would we care so much to see what a panel of 20 or so people think when we have the opportunity to see what millions of people think about our ideas?

    The true reward for our creations now is seeing how they effect and touch the public.

    Jr: Ah yes! But! If that be true, are award books worth looking at these days for inspiration or an education in ideas?

    L: I think it’s important to know what’s been done before, and what hasn’t, to know the rules so you know how to break them, to know the history of work and of a category. As a junior you should soak up all the inspiration you can get.

    I’d just say don’t try and replicate the stuff you see in books. We live in unique and as they say exponential times. Things are changing quicker than ever before, so what was good a year back has never become so old so quickly.

    True inspiration though — that’s not in award books. It’s around us in the world we live. But if the books can help make the work better year upon year, and ultimately the stuff we force into the public’s face a little less crap, then I guess we should take them any which way we can.

    Jr: Someone once told us, “Leo is a genius. He was also supported by brilliant ECDs at every agency he went to.” How important have your mentors been to how you approach your work and what should juniors look for in a brilliant mentor?

    L: Absolutely crucial. Whenever I see a junior unsure of which agency to join I tell them to focus on the individuals there. Ultimately it’s the individuals there who will help guide you and who define those places during the time they spend there. I was lucky enough to work under some great ones, but even more than that I got to work alongside some as a junior writer. With Toby Talbot at Colenso BBDO and of course a few years later working with Jan at Saatchi & Saatchi London.

    So I’ll always be appreciative of how much time senior creatives gave me when I was knocking on their doors with a bad portfolio. Granted I could be an absolute pain in the ass so it was probably easier to see me than not back then. There are great people out there, generous with their time and passionate about their jobs, it’s really just a matter of tracking them down and feeding off them.

    Jr: Could you possibly speculate how important working internationally has been to your career? Can you imagine if you had stayed in Australia and where you might be now?

    L: Probably a much better surfer than I am these days…

    Advertising is a great vehicle to check out the rest of the world. But the strange thing is wherever I’ve ended up I’ve always been glad that I started out in Australia. When there isn’t a whole lot to rely in terms of budgets, production time and global media buys you’re only left with the strength of your idea so that’s what you focus on. Once you’ve learnt how to make your idea bullet proof, all those other layers, they only make your original idea better.

    Jr: What’s your best advice for dealing with politics within an agency, both dealing with others and fighting for ideas, especially when you’re at the bottom rung of the hierarchy?

    Work for someone you believe can spot good ideas. It’s that simple. Chances are part of the reason you got into this industry is because you realized the work rules. So take advantage of that as a junior. My advice would be don’t worry about the other stuff. More and more the true power will lie in the hands of creative people, and we all know the best ones aren’t political.

    Jr: Obviously there are a lot of kids coming straight out of ad schools today with the same work for the same old clients with the same witty headlines and such… What are you looking for in a junior and what can those graduating from the ad schools do differently to stand out and impress someone like you?

    L: The best way I can think to explain that is with something John Lennon said. He was once asked why he wrote music and he responded by comparing it to writing a letter. Writing the letter, he said, got him excited but what he really got off on was the response he would get to that letter. That’s it at its essence. We’re looking for people who have that thing inside them, that urge to touch people with their ideas, those who live for simplifying things down to a common language that effects people, deeply and broadly.

    Of course, now you’re also trying to stand out during the biggest recession of our lifetimes. But I believe that soon this will be an advantage to the kids coming through. History has shown that when the slate is clean, when things are being re-appraised, and it’s happening on two levels in our industry right now – on a technological and an economic level, it’s the turn of the new guard to step up…

    So don’t underestimate yourself, don’t set the bar at junior thinking. You’re competing with every kid out there with a digital camera and internet access. We live in a democratic era of communication, a time of accessibility and participation, where big production budgets can in some cases be more of a burden than a gift.

    Jr: Generating ideas – what’s your process? Have you got any crucial tips to tackling a problem creatively?

    L: I ain’t got any secrets. It happens differently every time, that’s part of the fun. I don’t really keep shortlists of my ideas. I know if it’s good enough it’ll stick around in my head – Jan calls it ‘the volt’. I would say though, don’t ignore the things that on the surface don’t seem crucial to creating great advertising. Like, spending time to identify what the real problem is – not just the advertising problem but the business problem, and embracing the limits imposed on you. It’s often there the real gem lies.

    I also think it’s important to keep in mind, especially as a junior when you don’t have a ton of production experience that as big and important as coming up with the great idea, is understanding what about it will keep it great. Another reason why it’s so important which creative director you work under.

    Jr: OK, enough of that cliche ad-guy question guff — how the hell do you live a balanced life? You obviously work really hard. Is that something that comes naturally or do you have to sacrifice things to make your life liveable outside of hard work?

    L: Hard work has never felt like hard work because it’s something I’ve always loved. Reducing something down to is most basic form, I’m not sure how many other professions there are where you have the same tools as anyone else in the business irrelevant of your experience – a blank pad and a pen.

    So for me loving what you do is the most important ingredient really. If people advise you against being a creative don’t listen to them, listen to your heart. If you’re passionate enough about what you do, you’ll work hard enough at it and the skill will eventually come. Just make sure you’ve instilled a healthy effort reward ratio. By that I mean make sure you’re always working on something you’re excited about – which usually means something you haven’t done before.

    Jr: How far into the future do you look? You’re not that far past thirty and you’ve already achieved more accolades than many people achieve in their entire careers. We know you probably don’t buy into that sort of statement, but where to next? How often do you need to reassess your career and where it fits within your entire life? Do you even think about that shit?

    L: I was made ECD of the Saatchi & Saatchi New York office when I was 28, and I remember when I would walk there across west 4th street, there was a faded chalk scribble that would always catch me out. It simply said ‘where are you going?’. Every time I read it, it made me think: where was I going? To another meeting? To a corner office? Over time, without me realizing it, I think these four words embedded themselves into my subconscious.

    So when I look back on it now Jan and I left Saatchi and Saatchi because we kinda had this feeling inside we weren’t being pushed as much as we could be. We began directing a couple of things and really enjoyed that as a distraction. But we knew there was a bigger issue on the table. We felt the world around us was changing quicker than the big agency model could, and us if we stayed in one. So even if you don’t intend to look far ahead, I guess there’s something inside of us that does.

    Best of luck juniors, I hope this helps.

    ADVERTISING, THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Also tagged ADVERTISING, CREATIVITY, HUNGER, INSPIRATION, JOB HUNTING, SUCCESS, THE INTERVIEW SERIES

    Tag Archives: NEW YORK

    Interview Series // 23 (Part One)

    daniel

    “Have you ever played the Legend of Zelda? That’s what getting a job in advertising is like.” This, my precocious and talented friends, is exactly the sort of nerdy but insightful advice you’re likely to get from Daniel Bremmer (http://peachfuzz NULL.net/), especially after two shots of Absinthe, three cocktails and a round of Coopers. We met to conduct this interview on a beautiful summer’s evening in a quaint Brooklyn establishment, and sat talking shit for hours. We talked about highschool, the New York ad industry, the Obama campaign, the Legend of Zelda and even the merits of not having sex. You see, Daniel’s a 35-year-old kid from California, freelancing in New York City, trying his hardest to save the world, and has something to say about everything. Which he’s allowed to, for he’s pretty much worked on everything, everywhere, from Microsoft to Prius to Coke and Obama. He’s also just launched a site to save health care in the U.S. named notatable.org (http://www NULL.notatable NULL.org/). But! Let. Me. Tell. You! That stuff didn’t matter after a particularly potent round of cocktails. You know what did? Talking to strangers sitting next to us, that’s what! Which we did for so long, we totally forgot we were there to do an interview, until Daniel remembered, and things got interesting…

    Daniel: Alright! Start! What do you want to ask?

    Junior: Ugh. I don’t even know anymore.

    D: Come on! I’m the one that’s supposed to be drunk, not you.

    Jr: I know!

    D: You should have been sober. You should have been drinking coffee.

    Jr: No, no! I’m all good! I swear! Alright, alright. I usually like to start with a quick rundown of where you started out, what you wanted to do, how you got into uni, and then the job, you know…

    D: My life story?

    Jr: Well… *Hiccup* …Yeah, I guess. Quick though! Two hundred words or less!

    D: Ha, OK. I’ll try. I grew up in Orange County. It was a very conservative place. My parents are somewhat hippy. We grew food in the backyard. We had pet chickens. I went to Space Camp (http://www NULL.spacecamp NULL.com/). My Dad was an engineer. My Mother was a teacher. I was the oldest child. Very idealistic. Tragedy struck. I had a brother die when I was in fourth grade. He was six months old. He was a baby. Really bad. I had a bad time in school after that. Wanted to take a class in Graphic Design, which wasn’t what it was called, it was some weird word. I signed up because I heard you got to make t-shirts. And I wanted to make t-shirts for bands I liked.

    Jr: What bands were you listening to?

    D: Well me and my friends were into this weird mix. There weren’t enough kids in my high school to have different alternative scenes. This was before Nirvana came out with Nevermind. Like, right before. Because we didn’t have enough alternative kids, we had to combine all the high schools together. All the kids would go to the goth club wearing black. Then the next week we’d go to the shoegaze concert, and we’d all be wearing corduroys and creepers. It was all the same kids. There weren’t enough kids to have different scenes; so all the kids who were into cool shit from all the different high schools were one scene.

    Jr: And where was this? California?

    D: Huntington Beach. A little conservative beach town.

    Jr: Is this like The O.C (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=yMGyl-l3qqc)? The TV show?

    D: Yeah, that’s set in Newport Beach, which borders Huntington Beach.

    Jr: So all the cool alternative kids made their own scene…

    D: It wasn’t cool though! What we did became cool after we graduated. While we were doing it, it was super dorky.

    Jr: So shoegaze and goth was super dorky.

    D: Super dorky. Everybody liked bad hair metal and R&B.

    Jr: I think this is a good opportunity to talk about schooling. A lot of high school students read these things you know. So what were you like at school?

    D: Well I never did my homework. I was a horrible student. I loved to learn and I was a gifted kid. I was in honors, but I nearly got kicked out as a freshman for skipping class.

    Jr: So did you have a problem with focus? Was that what it was?

    D: Well it was all my fault, in retrospect. I didn’t have the discipline to do it. But when you really look at it, I knew that I knew the subject material. The teacher knew that I knew the material. I knew that the teacher knew that I knew the material… Everybody knew. And I wasn’t allowed to just cut through the bullshit. No one was allowed to do that. Because you had to jump through these hoops. And that just seemed stupid. I couldn’t comprehend how that mattered. In life, especially. And sadly, at the end of the day, it didn’t matter at all.

    Jr: Yeah it doesn’t matter, but it does matter! Because it’s all about discipline and focus and sitting down and doing the work.

    D: But you know what? I am a disciplined and focused motherfucker today. I remember I had a freelancer, while I was working at SS+K (http://www NULL.ssk NULL.com/) on a project, and he wanted to go home. It was ten o’clock, there was shit to be done, and I couldn’t understand. I said, “You’re trying to go home? What the fuck is wrong with you? It’s not done. It’s only ten o’clock. Grow a pair.”

    Jr: Heh, yeah, grow a pair.

    D: “We’re doing shit. Grow the fuck up. If you want to do shit then we need to do it right.” So when it comes to that level of focus and discipline on my projects, I’m incredibly dedicated. I guess at the time, teenage me never saw the value of jumping through hoops to prove something. So anyways, you can edit all that out. No one cares about that.

    Jr: But I do think it’s important! Think about the kids! They need to know this stuff. They should feel they’re not alone and so on.

    D: Yeah, I guess so. Anyway, fast forward a bit and I went to Community College after High School, got into design, I wasn’t that good, the dot-com thing came around and suddenly I was being paid a lot of money. I still wasn’t very good. But I could learn html and I was a really mediocre designer. This was the late nineties.

    I DJ’d at a college radio station. I used to write for music magazines. I used to promote concerts. I was really involved in the underground music scene in Southern California. That was my life. It was through music that I discovered art and design.

    And then I worked my way into a really crappy Orange County ad agency called Priscomm. I was their web guy. And I saw this guy Jimmy who was the Creative Director and his job was to look at a business problem and come up with ideas that became ads, which I would then make into websites. So I thought, “So he just sits around and thinks… And comes up with ideas… And gets to pay rent that way? You can do that? That’s an option?” So I took a night class in advertising, fell in love with it, and then it all started.

    Jr: How old were you when you took a night class?

    D: Maybe mid twenties? Like 25. Maybe 26?

    Jr: You were 26 when you realized you wanted to do advertising?

    D: Yeah. I had no idea that I could do that.

    Jr: You know what the funny thing about that is. I know a whole bunch of 21, 22, 23 year olds that feel like they are over, they’re too old, by the time they get into advertising.

    D: Dude, I just stopped getting carded at bars and I’m 35. It’s the beard.

    Jr: Ha.

    D: I don’t know. I don’t know what to tell you.

    Jr: I think this is the biggest problem with juniors. They think that their time is up by 25.

    D: Sprout a pair. When I started at Art Center College of Design, the average age was 24. It very quickly changed. Now it’s down to like 18 or 19 years because of funding problems. But it used to be that it was a second career. For most of the people I know that are really good, it’s a second career.

    Jr: Well that’s what we’re kinda hearing. That back in the day when the mavericks were running the industry it was full of misfits. The dudes from Brooklyn who didn’t know what to do with their lives but were super smart and street savvy and could sell anything to anyone. Apparently they were the guys who were getting into advertising. And now it’s become full of a lot of fresh-faced marketing kids straight out of uni who think they can change the world with a social media strategy.

    D: All we need is smart people who are willing to call bullshit on everything. I have this issue. I’m freelancing at a large agency right now, I’m not going to say who they are… but you meet these people, and some of them are brilliant. It’s a large agency with a very good reputation. But sometimes you meet a person and you think, “Why are you here?” It’s filled with people who don’t understand how people communicate today. It’s like they still live in the old days of two creative guys sitting in a room who had an idea of what the world should be because they had these great lifestyles. They saw movies and did drugs at work and got paid big salaries to talk about their ideas all day. They had these ideas about what the world should be like and they turned them into awesome 30 or 60 second commercials and big lavish print ads that they shot in exotic locations. That’s over. That world still exists in some way, but it’s not relevant anymore.

    Most people in America don’t live that life. They deal with real problems. They have their own ideas. They’re used to a different type of communication where they don’t suck down what the TV tells them anymore. They tell the TV what they want to watch. And when they don’t like it, they fast-forward or they skip it, right? They don’t even fucking look at paper anymore. They do once in a while, but if it’s not relevant to them then they don’t care.

    The world of media and communication is dramatically changing and advertising works within that world. The skills that we have of, ‘I am a Copywriter. This guy is an Art Director. We get together and come up with ideas and they’re gonna look pretty and sound nice,’ is not necessarily the skill set that people who use social media, a medium that allows these people to express their ideas and control what they want, resonate with. Sometimes it is. Because I think all those people will sit down, even the most jaded among us, close the laptop, turn off the lights and watch a great fucking show. So that still exists on some level. But for the general majority of advertising, we need to figure out what these people want. What these people are interested in. We need to find a way to make our work relevant to them. I don’t think that’s the way advertising works today, and I don’t think the way we teach people to make advertising is relevant anymore. It’s fucking dumb.

    Jr: And most definitely in New York!

    D: New York is the worst! I have to live it! I sat in a room the other day to talk about a campaign for a large company’s effort in the health care industry, and it’s in a good way, they actually make things to improve health care. But I counted fourteen people in the conference room.

    Jr: Wow! Fourteen! That’s fucked!

    D: I know! Only four of them were involved in the ideation of what was happening. The meeting took about two hours. Nothing was accomplished. Which means this large American company was paying for fourteen people to sit around and feel important. For what? That’s what New York is.

    Jr: OK, so, Obama. You need to tell me about Obama, start to finish.

    D: Am I going to be forever known as the guy who did some work on Obama? Did I peak on November 4th, 2008? Am I over?

    Jr: Well generally when we interview someone, we want to have a popular hook that people can associate with. So we’re tagging you with Obama.

    D: So it’s not just my winning personality?

    Jr: No. Not at all.

    D: Ha. OK. Well, I will have to sadly disappoint you by saying that I worked on only one part of a six-agency effort to get the guy elected. This is how pathetic my little slice of history is.

    Jr: But it’s still very important!

    D: Well yes. Having said that, it was still the greatest thing I’ve ever done in my life, the greatest thing I’ve ever been a part of, and the greatest change I’ve ever had a piece of. It’s the best thing I’ve done, according to Kantian ethics… Are you familiar with Kant?

    Jr: You mean Emmanuel Kant (http://en NULL.wikipedia NULL.org/wiki/Kant), the 18th-century German philosopher from the Prussian city of Königsberg widely known as the last influential philosopher of modern Europe?

    D: Yes, that guy. So, according to Kantian ethics, the best contribution to society I’ve ever made is getting this dude elected. My part of getting this dude elected was an ad campaign to get young people to get off their fucking ass and register to vote.

    Jr: Because you knew that they’d vote Obama, right?

    D: Totally. Our data said that 70 percent of the people aged 18 to 35 were going to vote for Obama. We had to make the idea of voting relevant to these people. We also knew that young people don’t believe that politics is a way of getting something done. Our insider challenge was to say, “If you show up and vote, it is a worthwhile way to accomplish the things that you already want of out life. The things that you want for the future.”

    They don’t feel that voting actually accomplishes dick squat. They feel it’s been proven that it doesn’t. So the challenge was to register as many of them as possible.

    Another problem we had was that the entire process is outdated nonsense. Every state has different laws. You need to buy a stamp, a postage stamp, to register to vote! You can’t do it online. It’s stupid. So we had to overcome all this shit. The bottom line was, ‘How do we make registering as relevant as possible and how do we register as many of them as possible?

    Well, the easiest way to do it is through a website. Anyone who’s young knows how to use the web. All they care about is ‘Give me a fucking URL and I’ll take care of it.’ That became Voteforchange.com. (Editors note: Which is no longer online, sorry kiddies.)

    Jr: And as little clicks as possible.

    D: Yes, exactly. I’m sure someone else on the Obama campaign thought of that name as well, but my partner Peter Cortez and I came up with the name and they liked it. A guy named Scott Thomas (http://simplescott NULL.com/) was the information architect of the site. He was also the design director for Obama For America (http://www NULL.barackobama NULL.com/). He’s the one that took the Sol Sender (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=etEP1Bhgui0) icon and cleaned up the type. He was responsible for most of the look of the Obama campaign. He’s the one that brought in Shepard Fairey (http://obeygiant NULL.com/).

    Jr: Sounds like he’s the bro to know. So voteforchange.com…

    D: Yeah, the tagline for the site was, “Everything you need to register and vote”. Most of the campaign was Peter and I working 18 hours a day in a room. It was a lot of BO, bad sushi, and favors from awesomely talented people. We sent out questionnaires from a Gmail address to everyone we knew. We didn’t tie it to the Obama campaign at all, a lot of the stuff we didn’t even tell our own bosses, because we knew if we told our bosses they would have to go get approval, and we didn’t have time for that, so we just did a lot of shit fly-by-night.

    So we set up this Gmail account and sent out these petitions to everybody we knew. We wanted to know, “Why is it worthwhile for you to vote? What are you going to get out of it? What do you expect to happen?” We got back hundreds of responses from all over the country. We got a lot of people from other countries, but we couldn’t use their stuff. We took all the interesting responses, broke them down into probably seven or eight categories of why you would vote. We built these buckets and filled them with responses that were good. Then we reached out to a lot of poster artists. We had two artists that were instrumental in getting everybody else. On the West Coast it was Brian Flynn of Hybrid Design (http://www NULL.hybrid-design NULL.com/). On the East Coast it was Tristan Eaton of Thunderdog Studios (http://www NULL.thunderdogstudios NULL.com/).

    posters

    Jr: So these guys do music posters and stuff?

    D: Yes. These are the guys who are big fucking dogs in their scene. Then it was all about our fantasy file. Who are all the designers you’ve always wanted to work with? We just emailed everyone, called everyone. And you know, it was just me and Peter in the office, the air conditioning shuts off at seven or eight, the funk kicks in, the smell of the old sushi boxes too, and you just go. You call all your East Coast peeps until it’s ten o’clock and it’s getting kind of late. Then you start calling West Coast peeps until about one. And you’re calling everybody and you’re briefing people constantly. We’d brief someone and say, ‘Health care: The issues are X, Y, and Z. Obama’s platform is 1, 2, and 3. Here’s three different headlines that should be able to work with the image you’re going to create. Show us your sketches.’

    posters2

    Jr: So was everything you got back good? Or did you have to refine some things?

    D: Almost everything was good. There were a few people that we couldn’t use, not very many, I think at the end 18 artists did about 22 or 23 pieces that were published. All the artists worked for free, nobody got paid.

    Jr: Nobody got paid?

    D: Not a penny.

    Jr: So how’d you do that?

    D: We tried to get honorariums but we told them upfront that they had to be willing to do this for the love and the glory. We had exactly one guy tell us no because of the money.

    Jr: Really?

    D: Yeah, then he called us back and said yes. The only people who said no were people who were just physically overbooked. If people were already yelling at them for work and they were overbooked.

    Jr: And then Obammy won!

    D: Then he won! Success. Best thing I ever did.

    (Editors note: If you wanna get something super cool, Scott Thomas has made a book filled with all the Obama design stuff, featuring Daniel’s posters and the voteforchange.com website. Buy it here (http://www NULL.kickstarter NULL.com/projects/simplescott/designing-obama).)

    Jr: So, OK, we’ve been drinking now for how long? Let’s jump into the nitty gritty shit and see what happens. What’s your advice for juniors?

    D: Well, if you’re a junior, all you’ve got to do is start working. Make good shit. Be a smart person. Be nice. And hopefully that’ll work out.

    Jr: I know this. And a lot of others know this. But for a lot of people it’s about getting that first ‘foot in the door’ or whatever.

    D: Have you played The Legend of Zelda? On Nintendo?

    Jr: Umm…

    D: You haven’t played fucking Zelda?

    Jr: I’ve had a fiddle.

    D: Ha. I should slap you.

    (Turns to the person sitting next to him.)

    D: Have you played the legend of Zelda?

    Random 1: A little while ago.

    Random 2: I have.

    D: Then I only need to slap one of you.

    Random 2: I remember the Nintendo cheat.

    D: Oh Yeah?

    Random 2 and D simultaneously: Up. Up. Down. Down. Left. Right. Left. Right. B. A. B. A. Select Start.

    D: Yes!

    Jr: Oh my god. You guys are total nerds. So what’s the importance of Zelda anyway?

    Random 2: Yeah what’s the significance?

    D: Well remember how in Zelda, when you wanted to get something accomplished, you had to go through these weird adventures that seemed like they had nothing to do with anything? If you wanted to beat some bad guy, you had to go find a leaf, give it to an old man, get a potion, take it to a lady, she’ll make you some arrows. Then you have to take the arrows to a dungeon, and shoot a guy with the arrows. Right?

    Random 2: Yeah!

    D: Well that’s what getting a job in advertising is like.

    Jr: Hahahaha. Woah.

    D: It’s exactly the same. Exactly the same! You’ve got to have teachers, they need to be smart, and they have to get you and like you. Then you’ve got to work fucking hard and you’ve got to be smart. If you don’t work hard and you’re not smart then you’re a piece of shit. But if you’re one of the smart hard working people, your teacher will recognize that and will introduce you to somebody. Then you start going on these little ‘go sees’, you know, while you’re trying to get a foot in the door. You meet these people and you say, “Hey, man, you work in advertising. I want to work in advertising. What do you think about X, Y, and Z? How does this work? You did blah blah blah, what was that like?” Cause you don’t know. I didn’t fucking know. I still don’t know most of this shit. So you ask all these questions and they answer you. And they feel smart for answering you. Once you’ve asked them enough questions and whatever, you say, “Is there anyone else I should talk to? Maybe at another agency?” And they say yes or no. Then you ask them if they can recommend some people. You know, say, “Do you know anybody at this place or that place?” And then they say, “Actually I do.” I did this in London. I got people to pick up their phone and make calls to people on their cell phone. Numbers you’ll never get. Once you meet that first smart connected person, and he or she likes you, they’ll make a couple of calls for you. Then you’ll meet a couple more people, and the next thing you know you’re meeting people, meeting people, meeting people. Then all of a sudden, somebody knows of a job. Or an internship. And if your work is good, and you’re a nice personable person, why not offer you a gig? Even if it’s an internship, which is how you prove to everybody in the building how smart and good you are.

    Jr: Wow. Yes. You make yourself invaluable.

    D: You have to be good though. You have to give a fuck, you have to work hard, and you need to be good. If you do that, then you’ll be fine, especially if you’re a social person.

    Jr: That really is very good advice. You are such a nerd though.

    D: Ha, yeah. But you know, when Zelda came out for Nintendo GameCube, while I was in school, everything else suffered.

    Jr: It always does with video games.

    D: My TV and my GameCube were going all hours of the day. It was either me or my roommate taking turns playing. So when one person was doing homework, going to school or taking a nap, the other person was playing.

    Jr: It happens to the best of us.

    D: It was good though. It was like a religious experience.

    Jr: How long did you do this for?

    D: I don’t know–too long. Then I became the student president. That was a bad idea. Don’t do that.

    Jr: Ha, OK. That’s good advice. Do not become student president.

    D: Do not become student president at Art Center, do not play video games, and do not have sex.

    Jr: Hold on. Do not have sex?

    D: Be chaste.

    Jr: What? What’s the theory? Why?

    D: You have bigger things to worry about than sex. Chastity is important…

    Jr: Why? I don’t understand.

    D: Because if you’re dealing with relationships, you’re not dealing with your work or your ideas, and your not dealing with your life. I do think there’s some connection between the creative and the procreative. That sex and creativity are linked. It’s the urge. There’s a common passion, a common energy. When you’re still developing one of them, you don’t want to drain it with the other one.

    Jr: Actually that sounds like a pretty interesting point. What about masturbation?

    D: It’s a good stress reliever.

    Jr: Yes. It’s not procreation either.

    D: It’s not procreation, there’s not another person there, and there’s no one else’s feelings to deal with. That’s the thing that sucks.

    Jr: Yeah, don’t deal with feelings. They get in the way.

    D: No, you should deal with feelings! You should be a sensitive person. But you should know that if you involve somebody else in that part of your life, especially if you’re a male and you’re dealing with a female, she’s going to have an opinion and feelings about your chosen activities. So your choice is to either be a dick, which is not good, or to deal with those, which is very time consuming.

    Jr: Yes that’s a hard bargain. Be a dick, or give up your career/creative time to deal with your shit. So don’t get involved?

    D: Don’t get involved. Work on your shit. Ride your bicycle. Don’t have sex. Work hard. Be nice. Pay attention. What else? That’s kinda it. Oh, and don’t buy dumb shit.

    (And as usual we spoke for way too long and Daniel had way too much good shit to say. So hang in there for Part 2. It’s got everything to do with not buying dumb shit, knowing which companies are helping the world, and how you can retain your soul. Coming soooooooon.)

    ADVERTISING, THE INTERVIEW SERIES | Also tagged ADVERTISING, COCKTAILS, COMMITMENT, CREATIVITY, DANIEL BREMMER, DRUNK, HIGH SCHOOL, HUNGER, INSPIRATION, JOB HUNTING, OBAMA, PETER CORTEZ, SCOTT THOMAS, SEX, SS+K, ZELDA

    Tag Archives: NEW YORK

    The Interview Series // 11

    toddlamb

    What does one say about writer and artist Todd Lamb (http://web NULL.mac NULL.com/lambtodd)? This guy is an enigma wrapped in a mystery wrapped in a girl’s hoodie. He’s one of those guys who has ‘a finger’ in a lot of ‘pies’, but above all else is a genuinely funny guy. And when we say genuinely funny guy we actually mean fucking hilarious man of steel with balls the size of Obama’s brain. Before settling in New York City, Todd spent his years at three highly awarded US ad agencies, has written for several publications, had books published, directed TV commercials, done his fair share of stand-up comedy and has a world record for sitting on Whoopee Cushions recorded on Jimmy Fallon live. He’s also writing and developing an animation series called the Bloody Band Aidz. Did we mention he won an Emmy? No? Well he’s got one of those too. So although he may be an enigma with big balls, he definitely knows how to get shit done and win praise for it. We talked over email and this is what happened…

    Junior: Hey Todd. First thing’s first, we heard you won an Emmy? Is it real?

    Todd: Not only is it real, it’s shiny, golden and buried in my parent’s basement. When I lived in San Francisco, I stored it in my refrigerator to guard my beer and yogurt. Now it’s in Chicago, in a box until further notice (forever).

    Jr: You’ve worked at W+K Portland, Goodby Silverstein in San Fran, and Mother in New York. How did you go from uni student to working at three of the world’s great agencies?

    T: “The world’s great agencies”. That’s funny. They’ve done great stuff, but it’s important to know that these are businesses, just like a pet store or a fruit stand. You should be aware of that. This isn’t a bunch of hippies sitting around a commune, cracking jokes.

    The one thing I did do is go to school, worked hard, finished school, and now I write every day. Writing is such a great skill to work at and grow with. After you find your voice, you can expand endlessly on it for your whole life. Great writers are unstoppable. No one can touch them.

    Jr: We’re getting so bored of advertising. We’ve been doing a lot of ad interviews lately. How do you feel about advertising as a non-vapid alternative guy with a beard and some sense who’s seen some success in his career?

    T: I had to look-up the word “vapid (http://www NULL.yourdictionary NULL.com/vapid)” to know what you were talking about. (Editor’s note: Sorry man. Next time we won’t use a thesaurus.) I can tell you this: I do have a beard. That makes me the object of every straight woman’s desire and every lesbian’s secret fantasy.

    Advertising can be an amazing way to make things and collaborate with talented people. When the stars line-up: agency, client, co-workers, ideas—that feels nice. But, you should be very picky about who you give your ideas to and who you spend your time with. In the end, surround yourself with nice people that you genuinely trust, and you’ll be OK.

    Jr: You’re freelance now, and it sounds like you’ve been quite busy. For the younger freelance readers out there, (who may be writers, designers, film-makers, photographers, etc) have you any tips on making contacts and picking the right jobs?

    T: I just read in a book about chess that the word “freelance” comes from a soldier who would take his sword wherever they needed him, to fight in return for payment. Hence, the word “free” and “lance” together. I like that. I don’t have any advice other than freelancing is 100% gambling. It’s unsteady and with no guarantees. So you better be brave and you better be OK with falling flat on your face. But I recommend everyone try it, it is a different way to live.

    Jr: Ok, so writing. You’ve done quite a bit of ‘extra-curricular’ writing outside of your daily work…

    T: The idea of “extra-curricular” doesn’t exist. Writing is writing. Everything is valid and every form (ads, television, short films, books, magazines, the internet) needs good, humorous writing. Nowadays it’s all the same. This is a great thing for young people because there are so many choices.

    Jr: We hear you’ve been working on an animation series about band-aids. We have friends who are super keen to start writing scripts and pitching them but have no idea where to start. What’s the process been for you so far?

    T: It’s called the Bloody Band Aidz (http://www NULL.bloodybandaidz NULL.com) (www.bloodybandaidz.com). We developed it for a cable network. TV show development is a crazy thing. It takes people years to get a show on the air. Whether you’re Andy Richter or Dave Chappelle or someone else, the fame doesn’t always help you in the development process. It’s kind of like a two-year version of pitching an idea for a magazine article, but there’s a good chance you won’t get to do the project. So, if you want to try inventing a new TV show, know that it takes patience.

    Jr: Man, we saw you on Jimmy Fallon (http://urdb NULL.org/Content/RecordDetail NULL.aspx?id=374) too, and we’ll go out on a limb and say it was a wince (http://urdb NULL.org/Content/PostDetail NULL.aspx?id=6) – just for the record. How did that whole shebang come about?

    T: There is a thing in NYC called the Universal Record Database (http://urdb NULL.org/) which is a monthly event on stage where people can break world records. It’s part stand-up comedy and part “feats of strength”. So, Jimmy Fallon’s producer saw some of the videos on the site and asked us to come on the show. It was a great time. Jimmy Fallon is such a nice guy. He was so gracious to his guests. To watch him work is amazing.

    Jr: We should probably say something about the Chris posters (http://web NULL.mac NULL.com/lambtodd/iWeb/todd%20lamb%20/Todd%20Lamb%20Notes%20From%20Chris NULL.html). The story has become a bit of a sensation (http://www NULL.theage NULL.com NULL.au/national/artist-blasts-poster-plagiarist-craig-20090316-8zh2 NULL.html) down here is Oz. We need the hits so bear with us. Why did you do them in the first place and how do you feel about the dude who ripped you off?

    T: I did “Notes From Chris” (http://web NULL.mac NULL.com/lambtodd/iWeb/todd%20lamb%20/Todd%20Lamb%20Notes%20From%20Chris NULL.html) to make people laugh. It’s that simple. To make people’s day better and to entertain myself along the way.

    So, some guy in Australia tried to steal the posters, even word-for-word in some cases. I think the act of taking someone’s ideas and claiming them as your own is the lowest thing a human being can do, other than crapping on the hood of your neighbor’s car. Desperate people do things like steal. But thankfully, the guy who tried to steal my idea got exposed by the media and called-out as a thief.

    “Notes From Chris” is my ongoing project, so you’ll see more of them soon around NYC and online. Stay tuned to www.toddlamb.net (http://www NULL.toddlamb NULL.net)

    Jr: And finally, say there’s some budding comedy writers out there who are keen to be a sponge and learn their shit. Got any suggestions for books or mags or movies they should be sponging?

    T: Albert Brooks, Woody Allen, Conan O’Brian, Letterman, Freaks And Geeks, Mr. Show. I find 30 Rock to be totally amazing and brilliant. The list goes on forever and everyone has their own comedy taste. No one is right and no one is wrong.

    Get a Netflix account and watch everything funny that was ever made. Then get some sleep, have a cup of coffee, think real hard, and go make some funny stuff.

    ADVERTISING, FILM, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, WRITING | Also tagged ADVERTISING, ANIMATION, COMEDY, EMMY, FREELANCE, TELEVISION, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, TODD LAMB, WRITING

    Tag Archives: NEW YORK

    The Interview Series // 10

    ericquennoy

    See this picture above? It’s Eric! Don’t you just want to give him a cuddle? Aww, what a guy. He’s currently one of the insanely talented creative directors at Wieden+Kennedy (http://www NULL.wk NULL.com/) Amsterdam. It’s there that he makes ads for Nike and other authentically relevant brands. He made this ad about talking arteries (http://www NULL.youtube NULL.com/watch?v=WRlIZVeNI1k) which we think is particularly cool. We wanted to find out how we can make cool ads too, because we have no idea where to start. So we tried to ask some insightful questions, and maybe we did, but we suppose you’ll be the judge of that, Mr and Mrs Readership. So, what are you waiting for? Go on, it’s good we swear.

    Junior: Eric! It’s lovely to meet you. What are you up to at the moment? Is the weather annoying you like everyone else?

    Eric: Hey! Nice to meet you too. Right now, I’m at my desk and the first hints of Spring have hit Amsterdam. Everyone is so unbelievably happy and relieved that the rainy Winter nightmare is over. I’m also nervously waiting to hear if our Nike World Cup campaign has been approved from the head honchos in Portland. Please God/Allah/Vishnu/Satan.

    Jr: We’re praying too! So we hear you’re a Melbourne boy from way back. How does one of those end up at W+K Amsterdam?

    E: I left Melbourne in ’98 for New York City. Worked there for 7 years, had a kid, decided to get out, and landed a job here at W+K Amsterdam. Sweet.

    Jr: Did you have a job lined up before you packed your bags and said goodbye to the lucky country?

    E: No I didn’t. Having married an American I had a green card, so I thought I’d just move there and try shopping my book around. See how that goes. Luckily I got there in the midst of the dot com boom, when they were giving jobs to monkeys. I say luckily because my work was very Australian – weird brands, strange humor, low budget – and it didn’t go down all that well. But honestly, there was so much money around at the time they just needed people.

    Jr: You know, everyone in the world wants to work at W+K. All we hear is, ‘man, they do really cool work.’ Somehow we think it can’t just be guys shooting hoops and spending million dollar budgets. Is it really about ‘cool’ work or is there something more to it?

    E: Of course it’s about doing cool work, but that could never happen if the culture wasn’t in place to support the creatives. It is the only place I have ever worked at that is genuinely driven by creative. If the account people don’t think it’s right, but the creatives think it’s cool, well the creatives win. That doesn’t mean that the account guys are muppets, it’s just that they know they will never win that fight. So they get on board and support us wholeheartedly. All W+K offices are managed by two ECDs and one MD. Majority rules.

    Jr: That’s really nice to know. Advertising is generally filled with people bred to KILL creativity. Bah! What are we to do? I suppose everyone aspires to work at a ‘cool’ agency to get past that, but realistically not everyone is suited to the W+K’s of the world. What do you look for in an aspiring W+K candidate?

    E: There’s such a wide range of oddballs here, it’s hard to pick any defining feature of a W+K employee other than being ‘into it’. I guess everyone here is passionate about stuff, creative or otherwise. You can’t fake that. Oh, and an above average ability to write or art direct will help.

    Jr: As a Creative Director, how can a junior get on your good side? Is it all about presenting good work or are there other ways we can get you excited?

    E: I just want to see lots of ideas. And I never want anyone to take themselves too seriously.

    Jr: Copywriting. It’s misunderstood by so many juniors, probably because art direction seems to be the obvious choice for an ‘aspiring creative’. What would you say to a kid who wants to be a copywriter, but has no idea where to start, let alone hone their craft?

    E: Study the annuals and showreels. Read and write a lot. Work with a partner. Don’t smoke too much dope.

    Jr: What about the copywriters out there who are working already and are sick of writing brochures and eDMs for cooking utensils? What should they do to step it up and write better ads?

    E: Well if they’re already working they should be trying their utmost to do cool stuff for every client in the building. Anything will do, a banner, a flyer, a spot shot on a mobile phone, it doesn’t matter as long as it’s cool. They should also get very chummy with the best art director in the building.

    Jr: Very good advice, but as juniors we might have cool ideas yet it’s our presentation skills that need help. Any tips on how to present better, and especially creative that might seem a bit wacky, or worse, a ‘risk’?

    E: I always think it’s good to explain how you came to to an idea – your thinking process – no matter how left-field it is. And by the way ‘risk’ is good, but wacky is rarely good. And tell your idea like you’d tell it to your friends at the pub. With the same level of enthusiasm and all the little additional quips thrown in.

    Jr: Finally, all juniors are told to get a good mentor. What makes a good mentor and where should a junior look to find a good one?

    E: A good starting point is to get a mentor who isn’t shit. Someone who has done good work. Beyond that it’s about liking the person. Any half decent human will be happy to help you if you reach out to them for help. It takes balls, but I also suggest approaching someone you admire directly with a letter or a phone call. Once you ask them for advice, there’ll be no stopping them. We all love to bang about how much we know.

    ADVERTISING, ANIMATION, DESIGN, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, WRITING | Also tagged ADVERTISING, AMSTERDAM, CREATIVITY, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, WIEDEN+KENNEDY, WRITING

    Tag Archives: NEW YORK

    The Interview Series // 08

    tomj

    We’ve had a bunch of friends who just want to ‘go overseas and work’. It seems to be the holy grail of any creative graduate. You know, the thing that will mean once and for all, ‘you’ve made it’. But there are naysayers amongst us! People like parents and disgruntled seniors who never got to ‘live the dream’. Damn them to hell. But fear not young wayfarers! We found someone who said a solid ‘f**k you’ to all the naysaying wanabees and flew the coop to New York! Tom Jackson (http://www NULL.tomwritesgood NULL.com) now works as a copywriter at Hill Holiday, writing ads for AOL, Partnership for a Drugfree America and Dunkin’ friggin Donuts! He’s also just a really funny and clever guy. And who better than a funny and clever guy to fill us in on the ins and outs of coop flying and living the dream in the big apple.

    Junior: Hello Tom! What are you up to at the moment? Writing funny ads and stuff?

    Tom: I’m trying to write funny ads, but am distracted by this National Geographic Video Podcast called ‘Dangerous Encounters’. This over enthusiastic American in Khakis seems to spend every episode crawling recklessly through Crocodile lairs and Python caves, always so shocked when a pissed off animal attacks him. Did he learn nothing from Steve Irwin? But as soon as that is done, right back to ad making, I promise.

    Jr: You’re in New York and you’re from Melbourne. Wtf? Fill in the blanks.

    T: Well, I was working really hard at Cummins and Partners in Melbourne with my partner Tian. We got to work on some great clients and do some really good work. It was a really supportive environment and lots of fun, but I was busting my butt and getting exhausted. So I figured, why not bust my butt and get exhausted, but be in a big fun city like New York? So I saved some money, quit my job and hopped a jet over here.

    In retrospect I probably should have got a job before I left, because it took me a few months to land one, once I arrived. But in a way this was probably a good thing, because it gave me a chance to unwind and reignite my hunger for work again. Plus I got to spend a summer in New York with lots of savings and time on my hands (something I recommend everyone do at least once in their life.)

    Jr: Isn’t New York the centre of some serious global economic shit right now? That can’t be good.

    T: Yes it’s a big weight dragging everyone down and I’m sick of hearing about it. ‘We get it CNN, the financial world is collapsing all around us, and Kevin Bacon’s broke! Now tell me something positive for fucks sake!?%^&?%^!

    Jr: We saw David Byrne (http://www NULL.davidbyrne NULL.com/) last night. He’s amazing. We read somewhere that he rides bicycles around NYC. Ever seen him pass you on your morning bagel run?

    T: If I ate an American bagel every morning I’d be larger than the Octuplet mum before she gave birth! And no I haven’t seen David Byrne. I did however see Terry Richardson (http://www NULL.terryrichardson NULL.com/) riding past the Patricia Field’s store on Bowery last summer. And like all true hipster dufusses, who seem to value looking sharp over their cognitive motor skills and ability to eat dinner without the assistance of a Ukrainian hospice nurse, he wasn’t wearing a helmet*.

    *Please see helmets for hipsters (http://helmetsforhipsters NULL.blogspot NULL.com/) for more information.

    Jr: Enough NY questions, let’s do the life changing stuff. So we’ve had this ongoing question raging for a little while here at Junior. It’s called the ‘grass is greener’ question, and it’s like this crazy banana peel of a question that gets answered differently by different people. Can you be the one to solve the banana peel mystery? Are you ready?

    T: Yes, I am ready. Hit me with your best banana and banana peel related questions.

    Jr: Is the grass greener for a creative in New York!? Or is it like being in Melbourne but with better galleries?

    T: Well here’s the thing. It depends what you want out of life. If I really wanted the greenest grass as an ad creative I would have moved to Colorado and tried to get a job at Crispin (http://cpbgroup NULL.com/). Or I would have moved to London where the work, in general, is better than in the US. But I didn’t come here just for advertising. I also came here cos it’s a kick ass city and to find more opportunities as a writer. New York is such a mecca for so many creative industries that the opportunities for both advertising, and also writing work outside of advertising, are greater than I could find at home or really anywhere else.

    Jr: Emma Hill told us, “don’t fall for the jobs that are easier to get in the bigger kinds of places. It will be much harder to get into Saatchi’s than McCann New York for example.” What do you think about this statement?

    T: It’s totally true, but if you need a job to get you set up and pay the bills don’t be afraid to take it. That been said try your hardest not to settle for the worst/first thing available, as tough as that may be. It’s not that hard to get a job at McCann but it is hard to get a job after working at McCann.

    Jr: Any final tips on planning for an overseas work jaunt? What are the things you forgot to do that you wish you had done?

    T: Do everything you can to get work before you leave. It’s hard because you kind of have to be there to see people and get all up in their bizness, but just try and do everything possible from home.

    Then once you’re there, hit the ground running and get to work.Use every contact you have, harass every person you know. Be as relentless as you possibly can. Call your recruiters everyday and annoy them so they don’t have a second to forget who you are. And finally when you have done everything that is humanly possible, let it go. I would always make sure that I spent half my day looking for a job and the other half seeing part of the city. The amount of top 10 lists I went through… I think I ate at every one of the ‘Top 10 Breakfast Spots in New York’ (number 1- Egg in Williamsburg- not so great). The point is you’re in an awesome city; so don’t forget to enjoy it.

    ADVERTISING, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, WRITING | Also tagged OVERSEAS, THE INTERVIEW SERIES, TRAVEL
              

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